Boeing's Starliner spacecraft is 'go' for May 6 astronaut launch

[boatgeek]

The Orion that flew on the Delta IV Heavy can best be described as a boilerplate re-entry test vehicle and had no service module.

That's fair. I was just pointing out that SLS isn't necessarily required to launch Orion. Do you know if Vulcan could launch Orion plus service module to the ISS? One could presumably pare down the consumables in the service module to account for a shorter flight. If not, the next available non-SpaceX heavy lift rocket would be the New Glenn, assuming it flies.

 

[Marc_G]

Maybe they are going to keep bumping the date out, hoping we will just forget about it, and then shove it off like a pallet of dead batteries when nobody’s looking.

Until it makes news for crashing through a Florida guy's house.

 

[techrat]

One could presumably pare down the consumables in the service module to account for a shorter flight.

I was thinking along similar lines. Not to denigrate NASA, who has more engineers than I do, but to build a craft that is only useful for one specific mission seems incredibly wasteful. I went to NASA to see the last Shuttle Flight and at the time, they were telling us that SLS was how we'd get back into LEO post-shuttle. Obviously; that plan appears to have changed. Constellation was a no-go; but NASA new seems focused on the moon for "manned spaceflight" and trips to the ISS are best left to contractors... of which they have one.

 

[Blast it Tom!]

Went back a page, don't know if this has been posted yet, from Boeing's site:

"Mission managers are evaluating future return opportunities following the station’s two planned spacewalks on Monday, June 24, and Tuesday, July 2."

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Went back a page, don't know if this has been posted yet, from Boeing's site:

"Mission managers are evaluating future return opportunities following the station’s two planned spacewalks on Monday, June 24, and Tuesday, July 2."

I think yesterday’s (6/24) planned spacewalk was cancelled or postponed due to a spacesuit water leak.

 

[Marc_G]

I think yesterday’s (6/24) planned spacewalk was cancelled or postponed due to a spacesuit water leak.

NASA is all wet over that one...

 

[Blast it Tom!]

NASA is all wet over that one...

Better than an astronaut being all wet. One of them nearly drowned due to a water leak on a spacewalk. The stupid water doesn't know it's supposed to drain down to his feet!

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

NASA is all wet over that one...

Aboard the station, spirits were dampened.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

Better than an astronaut being all wet. One of them nearly drowned due to a water leak on a spacewalk. The stupid water doesn't know it's supposed to drain down to his feet!

I remember that one. Something like a big blob of water started accumulating on the back of his head inside the helmet, and there was a rush to get him out of the suit before it wicked around to his face. Can you imagine drowning during a spacewalk?

 

[cls]

Can you imagine drowning during a spacewalk?

They train underwater in a pool... NBD?

 

[BABAR]

Looks like they are growing more confident StarLiner can make it back safely. I hope so.

A SpaceX “rescue” while bad on optics would not be as costly or otherwise unreasonable as it sounds. From

https://www.space.com/32286-space-calendar.html
The next SCHEDULED SpaceX DragonCrew exchange mission is this August. If I understand things correctly, the plan is to bring up 4 and bring down 4.

I’m getting varying reports on CrewDragon crew capacity, SpaceX site says 7, Wikipedia says 4 . If it’s 7, Butch and Sunni would bump the August return crew from 4 to 6
.

I looked and there are multiple US (as well as Russian) ports. So I don’t know if both Dragon and Starliner can simultaneously be docked. Although I suspect they will get all the info they can get well before August and cut it loose, manned or unmanned, well before that.



They could then undock the Starliner unmanned any time after tests are completed and have it remotely recovered (hopefully successfully)

I don’t know if the Boeing Starliner suits are compatible with SpaceX Dragon. If not they would need either adapters or to bring new suits (and I doubt these are one size fits all, so that may be a problem but not a deal breaker.)

Originally NASA said StarLiner was good for up to 45 days in space , which would run to late July. However, more recently that have said it coooouuuuld be extended to 72 days. Why is this important? Because I extrapolate that if they consider extending the return that long, then PRESUMABLY ISS has resources to support Sunni and Butch through the already planned August 2024 DragonX mission.

Anybody reading this able clarify what the DragonX crew capsule crew capacity really IS? 4 or 7.


https://www.spacex.com/vehicles/dragon/
The Dragon spacecraft is capable of carrying up to 7 passengers to and from Earth orbit, and beyond. It is the only spacecraft currently flying that is capable of returning significant amounts of cargo to Earth, and is the first private spacecraft to take humans to the space station.


NASA/SpaceX Crew-9
August
August: SpaceX will launch its ninth operational crewed mission for NASA. The Crew-9 mission will launch cosmonaut Aleksandr Gorbunov, and three NASA astronauts: Zena Cardman, Nick Hague and Stephanie Wilson to the International Space Station for a stay of about six months. Crew-9 will launch atop a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from Florida's Space Coast NET August. A final target date has not yet been announced.

NASA/SpaceX Crew-8 return to Earth
August
August: Upon the arrival of Crew-9 to the space station, Crew-8 will begin preparations to return to Earth. NASA astronauts Matthew Dominick, Michael Barratt, Jeannette Epps and Russian cosmonaut Alexander Grebenkin arrived to the ISS in March, and will wrap-up their rotation aboard the orbiting lab. A specific date and landing location has not yet been announced

 

[NTP2]

then PRESUMABLY ISS has resources to support Sunni and Butch through the already planned August 2024 DragonX mission.

Of course it does, if you’ve read Scott Kelly’s memoirs you know that the worst thing that could happen is the air gets stuffy.

 

[sr205347d]

I don’t know if the Boeing Starliner suits are compatible with SpaceX Dragon. If not they would need either adapters or to bring new suits (and I doubt these are one size fits all, so that may be a problem but not a deal breaker.)

In addition to plugging the suits in for life support and comms, they would need seats. These could be transported up on the next crew or cargo dragon.

 

[techrat]

Anybody reading this able clarify what the DragonX crew capsule crew capacity really IS? 4 or 7.

It was originally designed to carry 7, but that's with airline-style seating. Usually, the space for the other 3 seats is used by 'pressurized cargo' (science experiments, personal items, fresh bagels, etc.). I do not believe it's ever been tested with 7, and I'm sure NASA is hesitant to fly anything that hasn't been tested. As far as I know, the ISS is overstocked on supplies, so supporting 2 extra people for another month or so is not an issue. Recall that they are using the inflatable Bigelow module as storage.

 

[sr205347d]

A SpaceX “rescue” while bad on optics would not be as costly or otherwise unreasonable as it sounds.

Surely they have planned for this contingency.

 

[ThirstyBarbarian]

As a precaution, the ISS crew had to shelter in their return craft due to a Russian satellite breaking up. Must be fun to be the ones ordered into the leaky liferaft.

https://www.space.com/iss-astronauts-shelter-return-spacecraft-satellite-breakup

 

[kuririn]

Too bad the crewed version of Dream Chaser is a ways off.
Reminds me of "Marooned".

 

[BABAR]

As a precaution, the ISS crew had to shelter in their return craft due to a Russian satellite breaking up.

new Russian Space Corps Song

 

[BABAR]

Maybe trying to turn lemons into lemonade, but will be instructive to see what if any additional issues crop up with StarLiner on this unintentionally extended mission.

If the only major flaws are the helium leaks and the partial thruster failures, and if those problems are confidently fixable, I’d say Boeing stays in the running.

SpaceX remains in the lead, but I still don’t like monopolies.

 

[techrat]

Too bad the crewed version of Dream Chaser is a ways off.
Reminds me of "Marooned".

Which is really hilarious, as the Dreamchaser looks VERY similar to the "XRV" they use to rescue the crew in "Marooned"

 

[techrat]

If the only major flaws are the helium leaks and the partial thruster failures, and if those problems are confidently fixable, I’d say Boeing stays in the running.

I agree, if only because NASA has no other backup solution at this time. Starliner's problems are not insurmountable, and likely not dealbreakers either. They will contract Boeing for "X" number of missions, but they are also going to start looking at alternatives to this alternative, I guarantee. Unless Boeing makes significant changes from the top down regarding their quality control, they are not the 800-pound gorilla they used to be, and can't be counted on to deliver.

 

[cls]

I think Vulcan + Centaur with a Dream Chaser in top would be a fabulous low or mid power model. Husky, handsome, cute all in one.

Flyback DC of course. Maybe Estes will make a molded Styrofoam one.

 

[ReynoldsSlumber]

I think Vulcan + Centaur with a Dream Chaser in top would be a fabulous low or mid power model.

Indeed! Though—not to rain on the parade—the Dream Chaser has folding wings and, like the X-37, rides inside a fairing. I guess that addresses a lot of tricky considerations on the real thing, with the opposite effect on a model. I suppose one could simulate the exo-atmospheric part of the flight and fly it sans fairing. Or one could somehow model the fairing separation and wing unfolding, which would be quite the feat.

 

[boatgeek]

Indeed! Though—not to rain on the parade—the Dream Chaser has folding wings and, like the X-37, rides inside a fairing. I guess that addresses a lot of tricky considerations on the real thing, with the opposite effect on a model. I suppose one could simulate the exo-atmospheric part of the flight and fly it sans fairing. Or one could somehow model the fairing separation and wing unfolding, which would be quite the feat.

John Beans had a concept a while back for non-pyro apogee deployment to complement the JLCR. You could do something similar with servos, a spring, and a split nose cone to have the Dream Chaser come out of a fairing.

 

[Scott_650]

John Beans had a concept a while back for non-pyro apogee deployment to complement the JLCR. You coudl do something similar with servos, a spring, and a split nose cone to have the Dream Chaser come out of a fairing.

I was just wondering about that idea from JB the other day - he talked about during his interview on the Rocketry Show podcast.

Back to the topic at hand, helium leaks seem like a problem that shouldn’t have cropped up at this point in Starliner’s development and thruster problems are definitely a dealbreaker for anything man-rated - is the current “jobs program” atmosphere that inefficient that what appear to be fundamental flaws crop up this far into the development process?

 

[Bob Yanecek]

Tripoli's latest 'rule' is that a certification attempt that recovers safely counts as a success even if the flight doesn't go as planned. It will be interesting to see if NASA agrees with that mentality.

 

[Mugs914]

Tripoli's latest 'rule' is that a certification attempt that recovers safely counts as a success even if the flight doesn't go as planned. It will be interesting to see if NASA agrees with that mentality.

They have so far...

 

[Art Upton]

Of course it does, if you’ve read Scott Kelly’s memoirs you know that the worst thing that could happen is the air gets stuffy.

Humm.. Stuffy Air? That means scrubber capacity would be overloaded...???

 

[NTP2]

Humm.. Stuffy Air? That means scrubber capacity would be overloaded...???

Yup the CJERs (I think that’s the correct acronym, it’s definitely pronounced like that) can support only a normal number of people without losing air quality, not a dangerous amount or anything but it apparently makes you grumpy.

 

[Art Upton]

John Beans had a concept a while back for non-pyro apogee deployment to complement the JLCR. You could do something similar with servos, a spring, and a split nose cone to have the Dream Chaser come out of a fairing.

Yep, I saw that presentation at NARCON 2019