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Ironically, same as the ACME approved list!
Estes D12 Recall
- Thread starter sr205347d
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You are right about this. It's been discussed... without resolution.
We rocketeers know there's no danger. We know rocket motors do not function by "explosion" and we know CATOs and other overpressure incidents are not "explosion". But the general public does not know any of this.
We love great CATO pix and vids. We share them on TRF, newsletters, Sport Rocketry magazine, YouTube, and Flickr etc.
When I was doing the club newsletter, I often included a CATO photo, with a caption saying it's ok, this happens, no one was injured, the rocket flew later, etc., because we followed the model rocket safety distance rule.
We thought because one function of the newsletter is outreach and education, the photo would be understood in context.
That context was missing, for example, with all of Jurvetson's dramatic photos in his journal on Flickr. We saw in the comments that the general public didn't understand what they were looking at. Some were genuinely alarmed especially at HPR wipe outs.
So yes you are right, it can give the wrong impression. But we can't pretend it doesn't happen.
Very discouraging for Johnny when his rocket blows up.
I was flying rockets with the grandsons when we had a D12 CATO. Fortunately, is wasn't one of theirs.
I did a group photo as well. You can only upload one photo. I have another that clearly shows the date code. I will send that if they want it.
Yep! I agree 100% on the "Public CATO" bad image factor is not good for us at all. I pretty much avoid launching where non-rocketeers may be now due the CATO rate, otherwise I'd launch more publicly to draw interest. Good point that you're bringing up. Thanks.
I wonder if clubs will ban D12 motors with those date codes for that reason. I hope not, because my CATO Bait rocket is very entertaining.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/2nd-cato.186337/post-2596509
Capt. Eric
Well-Known Member
It's safe, even if they CATO, as long as you're following the safe distances as per NAR/TRA. Just don't put them into a monocopter where you don't know where that fireball will go! It would be like Russian Rocket Roulette! 
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Actually, I'm a bit more paranoid about distance. I do at least 30ft for LPR, 75ft for MPR.It's safe, even if they CATO, as long as you're following the safe distances as per NAR/TRA. Just don't put them into a monocopter where you don't know where that fireball will go! It would be like Russian Rocket Roulette!
Plus I find it easier to see the flight if I back away.
Hans.
Yea, I spent my summer of 14 years old building an Estes Maxi Honest John. Then before school started we launched it at the club field, which today is a medical collage campus, on the Monthly club day. [I used to use that field also on any day I rode my bike down there, but the Maxi Honest John had to wait.]
When it went to launch it, It "D-Ka boomed" on me, I felt it inside. Later a Maxi Pershing 1A flew, and no Kaboom.
Best I can recall is that Estes sent me a new kit, as I did build another one that I painted black and white for sport instead of scale like my first one. I had been flying FSI Black Brants after that D-Ka Boom. [At that time FSI E60 and F100 did not CATO, that would come later when George Roos quit making them]
I still have the Nose Cone and Tail cone from that D-Ka boomed Honest John.
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I'm wondering, don't know, but its seems to make sense, that all 3 in the same pack would have the same date code.
If one of the three is visible thought the plastic cover, perhaps a photo of that one of three in an unopened pack would be sufficient to provide proof of the lot for Estes, without opening them.
The Motor Hokey Pokey is easier than I thought. Spun a motor in each of 6 packs where the date is showing clearly in a group photo.
Sing along: "Spin your motor around: That's what it's all about"
Hans.
Dang, twenty out of twenty-three motors. Twelve D 12-5's (Estes bulk pack) E22 0522 code, Six D12-5's (from HL) E22 0622 code, and one pack of D 12-3's (from HL) E22 0323 code.
Wish I'd known this before my last launch, one of these crashed my Big Daddy. I'm guessing it was also one of these that crashed my Astron Explorer months ago, but I don't still have that motor to check.
I've filled out the form, now I guess I just wait.
I've filled out the form, now I guess I just wait.
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Actually, what do you mean by "crashed" your Big Daddy?Wish I'd known this before my last launch, one of these crashed my Big Daddy. I'm guessing it was also one of these that crashed my Astron Explorer months ago, but I don't still have that motor to check.
I've filled out the form, now I guess I just wait.
https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/big-daddy-lawn-darts-show-of-hands-please.131851/
There, fixed it
The nose cone came off but the laundry didn't come out. Weak ejection charge. Possibly the slanted shoulder contributed, as I haven't modified it yet.
A fin broke on landing. Also, the launch lug got crushed even though it was between two undamaged fins — I assume the nose cone must have smacked it as it was coming down.
Incidentally, the Astron Explorer crash was exactly the same (nose blew but didn't pull out the chute), except it's highly stable even with the nose cone off and trailing in the wind. So it took a core sample and demolished the front body tube instead of breaking a fin. (Thank goodness it didn't hit someone, it was scary watching it come in like an arrow.)
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grillsjosephbus
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So lets say you have a Estes D-12-5 CATO in a rocket made by another company. How does estes handle the recompense?
How come other models using the same nose cone do not have this problem? **
I never did on my Big Daddy, but eventually I lost it on a CTI 24mm 3 grain F; it flew over the trees in the wind and must have landed in the bog beyond them. I never spotted it in any of the trees after a nice long walk thru the trails in the woods.
** Edit: I have a theory on that reason
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Capt. Eric
Well-Known Member
They'll replace the engines, but maybe more. I did have my scratch built Christmas tree that was destroyed, and they sent me a Pro Series Parts Assortment, which was more than I could have expected and I thought generous (although I had to nag them for 2 months to respond to me). For a different brand of rocket, they "might" give you a similar sized one of theirs, but no guarantee on that.
D12-7's are not on Estes list. I have a couple with a lot code that is on the list. Any thoughts on the issue?
Capt. Eric
Well-Known Member
Same with a few D12-0 and C11-3's that I have. I included them in the picture I sent, with a note in the picture, and they are clearly separate from the others. Not sure what they will do/say. As someone else mentioned earlier, these could have been made on a different machine and are not a problem. If that's true, that would explain why they were not on the list. Time will tell.
I noted them in the pic I sent as well. Hope is not a plan, but I hope they get it sorted out. I have some older LP rockets I like to fly with those motors.
Checked my stash, I don't have any.
All of the bad ones I had came from AC Supply on 3/31/23, which is when Estes initiated their retail advertised price policy. I went into FPM (Full Panic Mode) and bought about $400 in motors, falsely assuming there would be no more discounts.
That order also contained a couple of dozen 13mm motors that ended up getting recalled.
Hans.
That order also contained a couple of dozen 13mm motors that ended up getting recalled.
Hans.
Where can I find a list of date codes for these?
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Go to the Estes site and click the ribbon at the top of the screen.
I only see the D12 codes listed there.
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