OK nautical types - what did that freighter hit in Lake Superior?

The Rocketry Forum

Help Support The Rocketry Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
I like that statement, it sounds like "unplanned rapid self-dissasembly"
Put that way, it sounds more like a rocket RUD, which is usually a lot more rapid and complete.
That boat is headed for the scrap yard.
Oh, you'd be surprised what can be repaired and put back in service. One of my clients just replaced a substantial part of the bottom plating under the engine room.
 
I grew up in Duluth, MN and have seen hundreds of ore boats. What caught my eye was how just behind the pilot house the flat deck seems to shift upward. That is not a normal thing for ore boats. maybe it was designed that way but I've never seen an ore boat with that feature.
 
Last edited:
Put that way, it sounds more like a rocket RUD, which is usually a lot more rapid and complete.

Oh, you'd be surprised what can be repaired and put back in service. One of my clients just replaced a substantial part of the bottom plating under the engine room.


They cut nuclear subs in half, to refuel them. Only 2 ships at Pearl Harbor weren't repaired and refloated.

Cutting out a bad section of steel, and welding in new plate, on a glorified bucket with no sensitive weapon systems, is cake.

If this ship is worth anything, it's fixable.
 
They cut nuclear subs in half, to refuel them. Only 2 ships at Pearl Harbor weren't repaired and refloated.

Cutting out a bad section of steel, and welding in new plate, on a glorified bucket with no sensitive weapon systems, is cake.

If this ship is worth anything, it's fixable.
As I tell my clients, you can do anything if you have enough time, money, and steel.

The real question is what shape the rest of the hull is in. If it's all marginal, then the owners may wish to cut their losses. If it's pretty good, they'll just bust out the welders.
 
I just wonder, with the age of it, how much rust is there? What is the likelihood of similar failures recurring in the future? How much total repair would need to be done to prevent a recurrence for a reasonable future service life, and what would that cost vs. just scrapping it and having a new one built.

(Ninja'ed by the expert.)
 
As I tell my clients, you can do anything if you have enough time, money, and steel.

The real question is what shape the rest of the hull is in. If it's all marginal, then the owners may wish to cut their losses. If it's pretty good, they'll just bust out the welders.
Or beach it Pakistan, cut it up and melt it for cars and bridges. :)
 
Sink it, in a spot known for clear water and a hard bottom, by Michigan, 100' deep. Easy dive depths.

So many people, get all weird about the Edmund Fitzgerald. Being able to dive a ship nearly identical would be a huge tourist draw.
 
Or beach it Pakistan, cut it up and melt it for cars and bridges. :)
Brownsville, TX is more likely, if only because of shorter travel distance.
Sink it, in a spot known for clear water and a hard bottom, by Michigan, 100' deep. Easy dive depths.

So many people, get all weird about the Edmund Fitzgerald. Being able to dive a ship nearly identical would be a huge tourist draw.
There would be some effort in cleaning out all of the oil and crud from 70+ years of service, but it's certainly possible.
 
Sink it, in a spot known for clear water and a hard bottom, by Michigan, 100' deep. Easy dive depths.

So many people, get all weird about the Edmund Fitzgerald. Being able to dive a ship nearly identical would be a huge tourist draw.

How many idiots would enter the interior and find their final resting place?
 
How many idiots would enter the interior and find their final resting place?
You'd weld closing bars on the hatches and doors before scuttling it. In theory, someone could cut those off. In practice it seem unlikely.
 
You'd weld closing bars on the hatches and doors before scuttling it. In theory, someone could cut those off. In practice it seem unlikely.
The opposite actually. You remove the hatches, doors, windows, and cargo doors, and scrap them.

That's one key difference between a sunk, and a screamer.

People wreck dive every day, or worse, cave dive. Yes, the weak or stupid, die.

A bridge to engine room penetration dive, could be fun.
 
Brownsville, TX is more likely, if only because of shorter travel distance.

There would be some effort in cleaning out all of the oil and crud from 70+ years of service, but it's certainly possible.
You need to lower the pilot house and remove the self-loader to take it down river.

It's been running oil since the '80's.
 
You need to lower the pilot house and remove the self-loader to take it down river.

It's been running oil since the '80's.
The self-unloader would probably be pulled anyway for parts. The pilot house is easily managed. Nothing a torch can’t handle.
 
Sink it, in a spot known for clear water and a hard bottom, by Michigan, 100' deep. Easy dive depths.

So many people, get all weird about the Edmund Fitzgerald. Being able to dive a ship nearly identical would be a huge tourist draw.
I believe the bigger draw for the Fitzgerald is the mystery around it, and the fact that the crew is still there.
 
Mitchie has already been patched! (Basically they put a big piece of tape over it.) That won't keep it from breaking in half if mother nature messes with it or if they do something stupid while unloading it.
 
Sink it, in a spot known for clear water and a hard bottom, by Michigan, 100' deep. Easy dive depths.

So many people, get all weird about the Edmund Fitzgerald. Being able to dive a ship nearly identical would be a huge tourist draw.goo
Good point for mixed gassed divers. Those on compressed air might be getting narcosis depending on their resistance for it,
For He/Ox rep-breather folks would be a piece-o-cake.
 
I believe the bigger draw for the Fitzgerald is the mystery around it, and the fact that the crew is still there.
They're dead and decomposed likely. Buttttt, the cold water might have kept the remains somewhat intact. Eventually they'll decompose even in the cold water. Might take a "thousand" years but they'll be gone. I reference the dive to the sunken Bismarck battleship and they showed some Nazi uniforms but said on camera there were no human remains to be seen, Or maybe they just didn't want to show them. The E.F. likely the remains might be intact if one wants to venture deep inside the sunken ship.
I think that's illegal now to dive on it as it should be. It's a grave site.
 
Mitchie has already been patched! (Basically they put a big piece of tape over it.) That won't keep it from breaking in half if mother nature messes with it or if they do something stupid while unloading it.
Splash Zone is magical stuff, though not what they used in this particular case. The bandaid is just to get the ship to a shipyard where they can do real repairs. If the crack is really only 1/4" wide, it will be straightforward to weld back up again.

https://www.tbnewswatch.com/local-n...a-patch-on-michipicotens-cracked-hull-9066504
 
They're dead and decomposed likely. Buttttt, the cold water might have kept the remains somewhat intact. Eventually they'll decompose even in the cold water. Might take a "thousand" years but they'll be gone. I reference the dive to the sunken Bismarck battleship and they showed some Nazi uniforms but said on camera there were no human remains to be seen, Or maybe they just didn't want to show them. The E.F. likely the remains might be intact if one wants to venture deep inside the sunken ship.
I think that's illegal now to dive on it as it should be. It's a grave site.
I grew up in Duluth and often swam in the Lake at Park Point when I was a kid. When I was swimming with some friends a body washed up onshore about a 1/2 block from where we were. They finally identified the guy and he had been missing for around 90 years!

The mean average temp of Lake Superior is 37º F. It will warm up in areas where it is shallow like Park Point. The North Shore is mostly basalt and granite. In some areas it gets deep really fast. Three feet offshore ten feet or more deep. And once you get below the thermocline, about 3 feet, it is 37º.
 
Last edited:
The mean average temp of Lake Superior is 37º F. It will warm up in areas where it is shallow like Park Point. The North Shore is mostly basalt and granite. In some areas it gets deep really fast. Three feet offshore ten feet or more deep. And once you get below the thermocline, about 3 feet, it is 37º.
I swam in Lake Superior once, on the Southern tip, at Whitefish Point in the beginning of August. While it was over 100 degrees at home in Northern Indiana, it was in the 60s there. The guy at the lighthouse said the water might be 40 there. It was cold enough your muscles just tensed up as soon as you enter the water. It was a one and done experience, now I just need to swim in Lake Ontario.

20190720_170827.jpg

The beaches on the Eastern shore of Lake Michigan are at least bearable to swim in on a hot day. It's still cold though. Erie warms up nice, as long as you find a clean beach.
 
They're dead and decomposed likely. Buttttt, the cold water might have kept the remains somewhat intact. Eventually they'll decompose even in the cold water. Might take a "thousand" years but they'll be gone. I reference the dive to the sunken Bismarck battleship and they showed some Nazi uniforms but said on camera there were no human remains to be seen, Or maybe they just didn't want to show them. The E.F. likely the remains might be intact if one wants to venture deep inside the sunken ship.
I think that's illegal now to dive on it as it should be. It's a grave site.
Last thing I saw about it was about 10 years ago, and they mentioned the bodies were still fully intact. Bloated, but intact. The bottom of Superior is very cold, and it's fresh water, not salt water.
 
The Michipicoten sailed from Thunder Bay Ontario to Duluth, Minnesota to get to the Fraser Shipyard which is in Superior, where she'll be dry docked and inspected so a decision can be made to fix it or scrap it. The video will also give you a good sense of the Ports of Duluth and Superior.

 
The Michipicoten sailed from Thunder Bay Ontario to Duluth, Minnesota to get to the Fraser Shipyard which is in Superior, where she'll be dry docked and inspected so a decision can be made to fix it or scrap it. The video will also give you a good sense of the Ports of Duluth and Superior.


I didn't know that Fraser had a drydock that big. We have a couple of jobs running with them on (much smaller) boats under construction, so I suppose I should get to know my customers. :D

I haven't watched the video, but I dispute the premise of the title card. Unless they explain why, a ship heading into shipyard to fix a leak is not a historic event. That happens all the time.
 
I listened to the video while doing some work this morning. I confess I snickered a little at around 12:30 when they said that the yard looked pretty industrial. That's about a 6/10 on industrial look in shipyards. Heck, there's green grass in sight! Most shipyards are concrete or gravel from fence to fence.

In other pedantry, the Michipicoten is docked in a graving dock, which is a subcategory of drydocks. A graving dock is a fixed hole in the ground that water can be pumped out of once you close a gate at the end. The other type of drydock is a floating drydock, where the ship is lifted above the water surface by pumping ballast out of the drydock itself.
 
I listened to the video while doing some work this morning. I confess I snickered a little at around 12:30 when they said that the yard looked pretty industrial. That's about a 6/10 on industrial look in shipyards. Heck, there's green grass in sight! Most shipyards are concrete or gravel from fence to fence.

In other pedantry, the Michipicoten is docked in a graving dock, which is a subcategory of drydocks. A graving dock is a fixed hole in the ground that water can be pumped out of once you close a gate at the end. The other type of drydock is a floating drydock, where the ship is lifted above the water surface by pumping ballast out of the drydock itself.
https://frasershipyards.com/facilities/

1719336793917.png
 
Back
Top