Neil_W's half-baked design thread

[lakeroadster]

Gee, I was also thinking of @BigMacDaddy, since you two actually live reasonably close to one another and could collaborate in person. But, alas... I assume that "pretty much anyone" includes @Cape Byron, even though the in person part would be just a wee bit harder.

OK, I'll stop harping on it. Suffice it to say that, no matter how realistic, practical, and reasonable the reasons are, it's a darn shame kits of your designs don't get made.

Once you've built a couple kits, scratch building is not that difficult. Neil's build threads are extensive, so following his lead and then replicating one of those designs is certainly within many folks wheelhouse. He starts with readily available tubes, cones and balsa. The only stumbling blocks for most of us would be decals.

 

[neil_w]

Once you've built a couple kits, scratch building is not that difficult. Neil's build threads are extensive, so following his lead and then replicating one of those designs is certainly within many folks wheelhouse. He starts with readily available tubes, cones and balsa.

History suggests that very few people are interested in doing this. Which means that these designs are not sufficiently enticing for most folks to go through the trouble of replicating the scratchbuild. Some form of kitting would lower the barrier greatly.

The only stumbling blocks for most of us would be decals.

I make the decal art freely available to anyone who wants it. If someone could handle the builds, they should be able to handle making decals from ready-to-print artwork. It does no doubt contribute to the overall barrier to reproducing these builds, but my suspicion is that if I offered to print the decals myself and send them to whoever wants them, it wouldn’t make much difference.

 

[Tobor]

Actually, I've been very interested in replicating a few of your designs, but It always sort of feels like I'm "Stealing" something from you. Yeah, I know, it's kinda weird.

 

[boatgeek]

History suggests that very few people are interested in doing this. Which means that these designs are not sufficiently enticing for most folks to go through the trouble of replicating the scratchbuild. Some form of kitting would lower the barrier greatly.

I suspect that most people who want to scratch build also want to do their own designs, and that those who want to build kits mostly want a fairly complete kit. It seems like there's a pretty small slice of the market for building instructions only and/or builders' kits.

 

[neil_w]

Actually, I've been very interested in replicating a few of your designs, but It always sort of feels like I'm "Stealing" something from you. Yeah, I know, it's kinda weird.

Honestly, I encourage it, and will offer every bit of assistance I can. If you don't feel right doing then by all means don't, but just know for sure that it doesn't bother me, quite the opposite in fact.

I suspect that most people who want to scratch build also want to do their own designs, and that those who want to build kits mostly want a fairly complete kit. It seems like there's a pretty small slice of the market for building instructions only and/or builders' kits.

I think that just about hits the nail on the head. I do think that builder's kits are still viable (@BigMacDaddy seems to be doing OK there) but plan packs have a much narrower audience, and "build thread as plan pack" much narrower still.

 

[jqavins]

If anyone ever thought that one of my designs was worth replicating, I'd be pleased as punch, and eager to see the results, which may well do the design more justice than my own mediocre building skills.

 

[neil_w]

Sometimes I like to fiddle with pod designs. If a pod looks interesting I'll see if I can find a way to integrate it into a rocket. This hasn't been all that successful so far.

This is one I'm playing with now.

 

[boatgeek]

Sometimes I like to fiddle with pod designs. If a pod looks interesting I'll see if I can find a way to integrate it into a rocket. This hasn't been all that successful so far.

This is one I'm playing with now.
View attachment 600518

I really like that one as a wingtip pod.

 

[jqavins]

I like that one as a whole rocket, if you chop just enough off that aft end to add a motor mount.

Or chop a little off and replace it with a shoulder, then this is a nose "cone". You've stated before that interesting front ends are harder to think up than interesting back ends, and you might just have a winner there.

 

[neil_w]

I like that one as a whole rocket, if you chop just enough off that aft end to add a motor mount.

Might even fly if I fill the nose with osmium. Or, if sufficient quantity of osmium is too hard to obtain, then some garden-variety plutonium should work as well.

Or chop a little off and replace it with a shoulder, then this is a nose "cone". You've stated before that interesting front ends are harder to think up than interesting back ends, and you might just have a winner there

Hmm, interesting thought. All those vanes will tend to pull CP forward pretty strongly, but it could be worked.

I really like that one as a wingtip pod.

Yeah I need to figure out a rocket to go with it... will have to fiddle.

 

[boatgeek]

Might even fly if I fill the nose with osmium. Or, if sufficient quantity of osmium is too hard to obtain, then some garden-variety plutonium should work as well.

If you can't source osmium, iridium is your next best bet. If that's still too hard to source, platinum will work fine with only a minor loss of density.

 

[neil_w]

If you can't source osmium, iridium is your next best bet. If that's still too hard to source, platinum will work fine with only a minor loss of density.

Have you *seen* the cost of iridium? I'm trying to be realistic here.

 

[mbeels]

I like that one as a whole rocket, if you chop just enough off that aft end to add a motor mount.

I was picturing it as a whole rocket as well, which end are you thinking of the "aft" end? I could imagine the left end of that illustration being the aft end.

 

[neil_w]

Oh, that's funny... I had the left as front, I suppose it could be yet another example of a cone rocket if flipped around. There goes my osmium-hunting expedition.

 

[boatgeek]

Oh, that's funny... I had the left as front, I suppose it could be yet another example of a cone rocket if flipped around. There goes my osmium-hunting expedition.

I assumed that right was front too. Don't give up on the osmium too early--it'll still need some nose weight with those teeny little strakes.

 

[jqavins]

I had the left as aft as well. Which left me a bit puzzled by your osmium comment, and boatgeek beat me to making exactly the same comments. With the vanes becoming fins, and at the correct end for fins, you should be alright with mere lead for the nose weight.

Also, you haven't give an indication of scale, and I was picturing it bigger for a whole rocket that one would make it for a pod. The scale in my head would mean only a little cut off for the MMT opening, approximately like this:

Then I'd give it a Vorlonish wrap job.

Straight up cone rockets, with their big flat bottoms, get lots of help from bas drag, which this wouldn't. But then, you would have fins. So, is that a wash? It would take simulating and swing testing to be comfortable.

And I guess it's probably not what you're after anyway. Maybe I'll do it myself.

 

[neil_w]

Also, you haven't give an indication of scale

Sorry for the omission.

 

[jqavins]

Then I'd give it a Vorlonish wrap job.

Or maybe bright, polished silver.

 

[BABAR]

Sometimes I like to fiddle with pod designs. If a pod looks interesting I'll see if I can find a way to integrate it into a rocket. This hasn't been all that successful so far.

This is one I'm playing with now.
View attachment 600518

Which end is the front?

 

[neil_w]

Which end is the front?

Yes.

 

[BABAR]

Sorry for the omission.
View attachment 600580

who’s the pilot?

• 3 Stuart.
• 2 Kevin.
• 1 Bob.

 

[SDramstad]

Honestly, I encourage it, and will offer every bit of assistance I can. If you don't feel right doing then by all means don't, but just know for sure that it doesn't bother me, quite the opposite in fact.

I think that just about hits the nail on the head. I do think that builder's kits are still viable (@BigMacDaddy seems to be doing OK there) but plan packs have a much narrower audience, and "build thread as plan pack" much narrower still.

I upscaled Neil_w's Alcubierre build a few years ago. Turned out really well and flies great.

 

[neil_w]

This is the sort of thing I had in mind for the pod design posted earlier. Rating: decent but not socks-knocking.

 

[jqavins]

Rating: decent but not socks-knocking.

This could be a key feature of a truly sock knocking complete design. A good color scheme, maybe some canards or other doo-dads, and you'd have another winner.

How about interdigitated mini fins, so there are six fins all together (but probably only the three doing any real good). It'd still want some elements at the front and/or amidships.

(ninjad)

What this needs is some stuff along the body tube. Remember the Estes "USS Atlantis" kit? It was their "original" Star-Trek Universe entry, with a radar dish and a long piece of balsa that ran along the length of the body tube that made it unique.

Yeah, that's the sort of thing.

 

[techrat]

This is the sort of thing I had in mind for the pod design posted earlier. Rating: decent but not socks-knocking.

What this needs is some stuff along the body tube. Remember the Estes "USS Atlantis" kit? It was their "original" Star-Trek Universe entry, with a radar dish and a long piece of balsa that ran along the length of the body tube that made it unique.

 

[mbeels]

This is the sort of thing I had in mind for the pod design posted earlier. Rating: decent but not socks-knocking.

I don't know, my socks got knocked, at least a little.

 

[lakeroadster]

Wow! Draggy bits will do that. Give me some draggy bits.

 

[neil_w]

LOL at "all it needs is some stuff up front and a good paint scheme". Those are always, by far, the most difficult bits for me. Coming up with an interesting rear end is comparatively simple; adding the other stuff to make a great rocket is another matter entirely.

As of late I try to do initial design in solid gray, so (a) I don't get prematurely attached to a paint scheme, and (b) I don't come to rely on a paint scheme (i.e., the rocket should start out looking good in solid gray). That is just my own preference; many rockets are completely defined by their paint scheme (e.g. DRM) and that's cool, but it's just not how I prefer to work. And coming up with paint schemes is a miserable process for me, so I usually defer that until the end, unless I have an inspiration earlier on.

In any case, I've only just started on this one. I'll see if I have any decent ideas for what to do along the body and/or the front, other than the plain old canards that I often seem to resort to.

 

[boatgeek]

What about sort-of-replicating some of those pods partway up the body tube? They'd need to scale to look good, and maybe they'd only have one or two fins. Of course, making that happen in construction isn't trivial.

 

[OzHybrid]

This is the sort of thing I had in mind for the pod design posted earlier. Rating: decent but not socks-knocking.
View attachment 605673
View attachment 605674 View attachment 605675

Looks perfect for whistles....