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So the first few have been delivered. What do we think?
Let's talk about the F-15EX.
- Thread starter cvanc
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The F-15Eagle was/is probably the most feared heavy air superiority fighter.
The F-35 is very expensive and complicated, and requires much more maintenance for a shorter life.
Both will easily kill a pilot if left to do what they can, from an aerodynamic perspective, so we may have passed the maneuverability limits of human pilots. If you want to go faster, it may have to be by remote.
If you want a reliable deployment vehicle, a large improvement to an existing airframe (incl electonics, radar, etc.) may get you more than a grassroots change to a new more complicated airframe. Maneuverability for the F-15/F-16/F-18 is already more than the pilots can handle.
I'd guess re-integrating this upgraded version is a similar decision as not getting rid of the A-10.
The F-35 is very expensive and complicated, and requires much more maintenance for a shorter life.
Both will easily kill a pilot if left to do what they can, from an aerodynamic perspective, so we may have passed the maneuverability limits of human pilots. If you want to go faster, it may have to be by remote.
If you want a reliable deployment vehicle, a large improvement to an existing airframe (incl electonics, radar, etc.) may get you more than a grassroots change to a new more complicated airframe. Maneuverability for the F-15/F-16/F-18 is already more than the pilots can handle.
I'd guess re-integrating this upgraded version is a similar decision as not getting rid of the A-10.
MidOH
Well-Known Member
Not at all. The A10 is obsolete. The F15EX has a clearly important role to fill.
Simply put, you can't use 5th and 6th gen fighters for every mission. Too much maintenance, too much cost. There are a ton of non stealth required missions, and using an Fxx, NGAD, or F35 on those missions, is very wasteful. The F15 and F18 aren't exactly the easiest things to spot on radar anyways, at least not when they're trying to be sneaky.
A large field of stealths, down for repairs, because they were wasted on low level bombing runs, is silly.
And the F15 still has a few tricks up it's sleeve. Not only can it terrorize 99% of adversary fighters. It can fly 200' off the deck, below radar, at Mach Jesus, with nukes under its wings. It's no joke. If it's A2A missiles work, the F15EX is more than a match for Russian and Chinese fighters. Teamed up with a few invisible F35's, and it's a turkey shoot.
The game plan is tag teaming 4th, 5th, and 6th gen fighters, into an unstoppable force package.
An F35 can only carry so many missiles. But it can target enemy aircraft, and launch missiles from an F15EX that's on the other side of the Horizon (literally).
A dog fight isn't "beyond visual range" anymore. It's beyond, and way the heck over the horizon.
The F35 can launch missiles, from missile destroyers as well.
It's no secret that long range missiles are being brought into the game plan. An F18 flew with an SM6 SAM under its wing just a short while ago.
And an F15 going Mach 2+, without worrying about your RAM melting off, is still handy.
Simply put, you can't use 5th and 6th gen fighters for every mission. Too much maintenance, too much cost. There are a ton of non stealth required missions, and using an Fxx, NGAD, or F35 on those missions, is very wasteful. The F15 and F18 aren't exactly the easiest things to spot on radar anyways, at least not when they're trying to be sneaky.
A large field of stealths, down for repairs, because they were wasted on low level bombing runs, is silly.
And the F15 still has a few tricks up it's sleeve. Not only can it terrorize 99% of adversary fighters. It can fly 200' off the deck, below radar, at Mach Jesus, with nukes under its wings. It's no joke. If it's A2A missiles work, the F15EX is more than a match for Russian and Chinese fighters. Teamed up with a few invisible F35's, and it's a turkey shoot.
The game plan is tag teaming 4th, 5th, and 6th gen fighters, into an unstoppable force package.
An F35 can only carry so many missiles. But it can target enemy aircraft, and launch missiles from an F15EX that's on the other side of the Horizon (literally).
A dog fight isn't "beyond visual range" anymore. It's beyond, and way the heck over the horizon.
The F35 can launch missiles, from missile destroyers as well.
It's no secret that long range missiles are being brought into the game plan. An F18 flew with an SM6 SAM under its wing just a short while ago.
And an F15 going Mach 2+, without worrying about your RAM melting off, is still handy.
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It's a great return on investment. There is no debating the capabilities. The F-15 A/B/C/D/E have proven records. Add in the rest of the alphabet (foreign users) and any conversation on that is over. The capabilities of the EX is better.
So why? Money. This fighter is situated between the F-15 and the F-22 in terms of capabilities. However, when you look at the cost to operate and maintain, it's far below. So, now, you have to look at "requirements." The adversaries out there have not kept pace with the US in terms of 6th Gen fighters and aerial warfare has changed a bit since the establishment of the 6th Gen requirements. That means there isn't a requirement for an F-22 but something a little more than the F-15C/E. With the EX, we get the "almost" goodest fighter for a lot less money upfront and the backend is already established (maintenance, manufacturing, logistics and training...well mostly).
So why? Money. This fighter is situated between the F-15 and the F-22 in terms of capabilities. However, when you look at the cost to operate and maintain, it's far below. So, now, you have to look at "requirements." The adversaries out there have not kept pace with the US in terms of 6th Gen fighters and aerial warfare has changed a bit since the establishment of the 6th Gen requirements. That means there isn't a requirement for an F-22 but something a little more than the F-15C/E. With the EX, we get the "almost" goodest fighter for a lot less money upfront and the backend is already established (maintenance, manufacturing, logistics and training...well mostly).
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MidOH
Well-Known Member
They're underestimating the life of the 35's to get these. That's a major selling point. But anyone that's seen the main spars and framework on a 35 is saying "wtf" right now.
Especially since the 35's idea of a dog fight, is floating along in a nice straight line.
There's a purpose for the 15EX that we're not being told. Hint: Long ranges, long loiter times, high speeds, and plenty of places to base refueling tankers.
Same reason there's going to be a big 6th gen coming, and a little one.
Especially since the 35's idea of a dog fight, is floating along in a nice straight line.
There's a purpose for the 15EX that we're not being told. Hint: Long ranges, long loiter times, high speeds, and plenty of places to base refueling tankers.
Same reason there's going to be a big 6th gen coming, and a little one.
