Photographing into the sun

[MetricRocketeer]

Hi TRF colleagues,

I have a question, please, on using my iPhone 15 Pro Max to photograph into the sun. I am just trying to be artistic (without much success). In particular I am trying to experiment with lighting. The normal rule is to have the sun behind the photographer, but now I want to see what happens if the sun is in front of the photographer.

I am not talking about photographing yesterday’s solar eclipse. I did not do that, and I know of course that doing so without the proper filter could indeed damage a camera — not to mention one’s eyes.

I am talking about a simple snap photo with the shutter open for, let’s say, 0.001 seconds or even less. Would doing so damage the camera? And if you forced the shutter to stay open for 0.25 or 0.50 seconds, would that cause damage to the camera?

Thank you.

Stanley

 

[bjphoenix]

The normal rule is to have the sun behind the photographer, but now I want to see what happens if the sun is in front of the photographer.

With a simple camera you have the sun behind the photographer so the subject is in the sun and gets exposed properly. If the sun is behind the subject then the subject is in shadow and may not be exposed properly. With more sophisticated cameras that can be controlled and photographers that know how to compensate it is easy enough to shoot backlit scenes and this is frequently done. Unless you have an app to control your phone you might or might not get good results.
However to answer your question it is not uncommon to shoot photographs with the sun in the photo. It isn't the short exposure that could damage your camera, it's the time that you are composing the photo and waiting to take it that can damage the camera so if you are going to do that you have to be very careful. When I photographed the eclipse yesterday my camera was pointed at the sun for an hour or more but I had a properly designed solar filter on the lens that let only 1/1000000 of the light through.

 

[MetricRocketeer]

Thank you, @bjphoenix, for your reply.

Then, if I may, I would please like to press the issue with you and anyone else who wishes to jump in.

How would one know if the camera did get damaged. How does one measure that? If damage, did occur, it wouldn't be a matter of all or nothing, would it?

 

[OverTheTop]

Shooting into the light with modern cameras can sometimes end up with flares that result in a vertical or horizontal line in the image. It is caused by how the imaging chip handles the excess electrons (caused by the large amount of photons) during exposure. You can see that effect through the viewfinder and hence deal with it before you push the button, generally by repositioning the bright light source. On rare occasions it can be used to improve the composition.

I would doubt that photographing the sun would cause any permanent damage to the cameras. Otherwise there would be big warnings about pointing it at the sun and possibly error messages flashed up on the screen.

Search for "photography into the light" or "photography contre-jour" for some good articles on techniques etc.
Example:
https://www.institute-of-photography.com/contre-jour-photographing-into-the-light/

Experiment plenty (at least you are not having to buy film ) and learn how the exposure of your camera system works and how you can adjust the exposure to get the best out of the camera when you make the shot. Don't rely entirely on post-processing or your image quality will suffer. Minor tweaks (exposure, highlights and lowlights) are generally ok and don't degrade image quality much.

 

[MetricRocketeer]

Thank you, @OverTheTop, for your informative response.

I would doubt that photographing the sun would cause any permanent damage to the cameras. Otherwise there would be big warnings about pointing it at the sun and possibly error messages flashed up on the screen.

That's a reassuring point.

https://www.institute-of-photography.com/contre-jour-photographing-into-the-light/

Instructive article. Thanks for the reference.

 

[bjphoenix]

I would doubt that photographing the sun would cause any permanent damage to the cameras. Otherwise there would be big warnings about pointing it at the sun and possibly error messages flashed up on the screen.

I was seeing a lot of warnings about this prior to the eclipse, and at the time it made sense to me. I wasn't thinking about the times I've photographed sunrise/sunsets, or the times that cameras get inadvertently pointed at the sun. I was seeing some discussion online after the eclipse and the risk to equipment was somewhat overstated although I'm sure the risk to your eyes was still very real. I found information online posted by some rental companies showing damage to rental equipment after the 2017 eclipse including damage to diaphragm blades in lenses and damage to digital sensors. To answer the previous question- some cameras had sensor damage that you could see with your eyes looking into the camera with the lens off. I don't know how this would show up in digital signals from the sensor, whether it would wipe out a whole band of pixels or just the blob of pixels at the damage, but I'm sure it would be extremely obvious.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/09/rental-camera-gear-destroyed-by-the-solar-eclipse-of-2017/

 

[OverTheTop]

I could imagine if the image was set up during an eclipse, with the energy focused on one spot for a period of time there would be chance for heat to build up and damage things. As for photographing something and fleetingly pointing (ie handheld) the camera at the sun I don't think it would be a drama. I am happy to be told otherwise, but I think for regular photography it is not a problem. Specifically photographing the sun then all bets are off I guess, and the right equipment should be used.

 

[bjphoenix]

I could imagine if the image was set up during an eclipse, with the energy focused on one spot for a period of time there would be chance for heat to build up and damage things. As for photographing something and fleetingly pointing (ie handheld) the camera at the sun I don't think it would be a drama. I am happy to be told otherwise, but I think for regular photography it is not a problem. Specifically photographing the sun then all bets are off I guess, and the right equipment should be used.

I agree.
For photographing the sun before and after totality I used a 1,000,000 solar filter. I interpret that to mean it passes 1/1,000,000 of the light. Sometimes these are described as 20 stop filters meaning 1/(2^20) which is actually 1/1048576.
For the annular eclipse last fall I took some photos from my house, we got to nearly 90%. I stacked 2 circular polarizers, when oriented exactly right they blocked a lot of light. Not as good as a real solar filter and probably didn't block all of the wavelengths that need to be blocked but it protected the sensor well enough. I did look through the combination briefly a few times with no known damage to my eyes. I found out later that the filters probably didn't block enough wavelengths to be totally safe so I was careful to buy the right filter for the next one.

 

[Azamiryou]

I'm sure much has to do with the physical size of the lens as well as the time that the sun is focused on the same spot.

As a kid starting fires with a magnifying glass I quickly learned that size matters a lot, and you have to hold the magnifier steady.

A cellphone lens 3mm across isn't going to collect much energy compared to a full size camera lens. Holding the phone by hand, the focused sunlight spot is going to wander all over the sensor, while a camera on a tripod will keep it perfectly steady.

 

[Hobie1dog]

Anyone have links to the proper solar filters used on 35 mm camera lenses?

 

[cwbullet]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/lens-filters-for-solar-photography

 

[sperocket]

What about taking video of people welding or taking a picture of welding?

 

[MetricRocketeer]

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/buying-guide/lens-filters-for-solar-photography

Thank you, Chuck (@cwbullet). This is a great reference.

 

[MetricRocketeer]

What about taking video of people welding or taking a picture of welding?

That's a good question, @sperocket.

 

[bjphoenix]

What about taking video of people welding or taking a picture of welding?

Some welding is less intense than the sun. I infer that because some welding helmets are sufficient for looking at the sun and some are not. I have seen plenty of people take videos of welding using an unprotected camera so apparently limited exposure doesn't damage the camera.