Dan Bryant
Member
Is it possible to make an aerotech rms case, and if so, what material do I need to use?
I might be wrong, but if I understand correctly, in the uk you can use an ip without permission, as long as you don't make any money off of it?It is physically possible but Aerotech owns the design and so you would need to obtain a license from them to produce your own. Intellectual Property laws and all that.
With some experience in making things, the only reason I can see to make one's own RMS hardware is to mess around with the mechanical aspects of the stuff from AT, such as a plugged/threaded/floating 29 FC that AT doesn't make, for example. Or carving completely unstressed mass off the closures. Any permanent modification (i.e., removal or addition of metal) to the case will cause the motor to be "experimental/uncertified" and one must be very careful about legality of that wherever one happens to live.
In general, when I see a question like the OP, the fact that the answers are not obvious to the person asking the questions indicates that that person likely isn't qualified to get the job done with their current
I see.With some experience in making things, the only reason I can see to make one's own RMS hardware is to mess around with the mechanical aspects of the stuff from AT, such as a plugged/threaded/floating 29 FC that AT doesn't make, for example. Or carving completely unstressed mass off the closures. Any permanent modification (i.e., removal or addition of metal) to the case will cause the motor to be "experimental/uncertified" and one must be very careful about legality of that wherever one happens to live.
In general, when I see a question like the OP, the fact that the answers are not obvious to the person asking the questions indicates that that person likely isn't qualified to get the job done with their current skill set.
That makes sense. Thanks.OK. So the answer is, yes, you can make them. If you have the tools and skills to make them yourself, that's obvious. You'd still probably be better off doing whatever it is you do for money and buying the AT parts. So if you make parts, it's because you're having fun.
If you are going to have to pay someone else to make them, you'll likely pay at least several times whatever your cost would be to just buy them.
Static test of I85. Note the un-anodized case, one of the clones.
I believe it's illegal to manufacture your own propellant in the UK without some serious licences you'd need to obtain. So not doable in practical terms.That makes sense. Thanks.
That is not a true statement. As an individual, I or anyone can clone anything anyone has the skill to make, as long as I or the individual do not offer it for sale. Also patents are not forever.It is physically possible but Aerotech owns the design and so you would need to obtain a license from them to produce your own. Intellectual Property laws and all that.
Certainly possible, but strongly advise you seek professional UK legal advice first. Even if you're using commercially produced APCP reloads, from what I understand from your post, you're intending to put them in a casing that the manufacturer has not tested or authorised, so the completed motor would be 'EX' (= 'home made") which is illegal here in the UK.Is it possible to make an aerotech rms case, and if so, what material do I need to use?
Sorry, I don't have access to the CNC lathe I used to make them. They are direct clones of the Aerotech hardware. Find a nearby maker club and see if you can use their equipment. The tube is 1-1/2 OD, .058 (17 gauge) wall.I'll order a dozen!
I meant the I85, looks like a fun motor!Sorry, I don't have access to the CNC lathe I used to make them. They are direct clones of the Aerotech hardware. Find a nearby maker club and see if you can use their equipment. The tube is 1-1/2 OD, .058 (17 gauge) wall.
You buy tubing. If there is none, get the correct ID and turn the OD to size. An example is 54mm (2.125" OD, .058 wall) is not a standard size. Either get a mill run (IIRC min 1000') or turn down some 2.25" OD tube.The cases look pretty tough to make to me. Boring something that long, thin walls that won’t have much strength to support the cutting tools. The tolerances seem pretty tight too. Just my 2c
No, the hardware would have to licensed from the original manufacturer, or cert tested as a new combination of cross-compatible hardware and reload. There are more nuances to this, and they all aren't written rules.so... If I make a case, fit-form-function, identical to an Aerotech case, SAME materials tolerances etc. If I use a NAR/Tripoli certified reload, and a 'non aerotech case' is the motor considered certified, if i were to present it to a RSO at a non EX launch?
Looking for an answer from NAR/Tripoli motor testing members.
Just a hypothetical, I'm not suggesting you build your own motor cases, plus be respectful of other folks IP
Depends on who the RSO is.so... If I make a case, fit-form-function, identical to an Aerotech case, SAME materials tolerances etc. If I use a NAR/Tripoli certified reload, and a 'non aerotech case' is the motor considered certified, if i were to present it to a RSO at a non EX launch?
35 U.S.C. § 271 says otherwise. Even violating a patent for private use is illegal.That is not a true statement. As an individual, I or anyone can clone anything anyone has the skill to make, as long as I or the individual do not offer it for sale. Also patents are not forever.
Aerotech uses and the most common alloy is 6061-T6 seamless drawn over mandrel. You can get small amounts from places like Onlinemetals.com 29 mm (1.125", .058" wall) and 38 mm (1-1/2", .058" wall) are standard sizes. Haven't checked 75 and 98 mm. Less aesthetically pleasing yes but otherwise just as good as the licensed ones. My cloned 38/720 cases have been going for 25 years with no issues. If they do wear out, you can make more.The other thing about this is that an Aerotech casing costs, what?, about $100 or €100? More or less? If you spend about 80 on the proper material (6061 or 7075 aluminum I think) and then use about 30-40,000 in a precision lathe, and several hundred on testing equipment, you'll end up with an end product that is less aesthetically pleasing, weaker, less durable, and is more likely to fail. So there's that....
No offense, but if you have to ask what material to use and how hard it would be to make, you have several years of experience to gain, and lots of expensive tools to aquire before you can do this.
If you were a journeyman machinist with a shop set up, you'd still have to be concerned about getting the end product properly heat treated and anodized.
Makes that Aerotech product seem like a bargain, right?
Common Aerospace Alloys (this assumes that you will use a non-ferrous metal, per most of the safety rules). So some aluminums:
- 6061: A high-quality material with a great strength-to-weight ratio, making it a popular choice for aircraft and spacecraft. It's also known for its weldability and versatility.
- 6063: Similar to 6061, but with better workability and higher corrosion resistance.
- 7020: Can provide extra strength, especially for safety aspects.
- 7075: A high-strength material with good corrosion resistance and a high strength-to-weight ratio. It's often used in applications where weight is critical, like aircraft and spacecraft.
- 2014: A good choice for frameworks due to its strength and machinability, but it doesn't have the same level of corrosion resistance as other grades.
- 2024: A heat-treatable alloy with copper as the main alloying element. It's commonly used in aircraft structures because of its high strength and fatigue resistance.
- 3003: Known for its great strength and workability.
Rocketjunkie,Aerotech uses and the most common alloy is 6061-T6 seamless drawn over mandrel. You can get small amounts from places like Onlinemetals.com 29 mm (1.125", .058" wall) and 38 mm (1-1/2", .058" wall) are standard sizes. Haven't checked 75 and 98 mm. Less aesthetically pleasing yes but otherwise just as good as the licensed ones. My cloned 38/720 cases have been going for 25 years with no issues. If they do wear out, you can make more.
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