Do you lube your rod?

[GregGleason]

For those of you don't know, WD-40 was used to prevent corrosion on the skin of Atlas missiles back in the day. It provided a quick way to keep moisture off the surface to inhibit bad things, like corrosion.

From the WD-40 web site:

Convair, an aerospace contractor, first used WD-40 to protect the outer skin of the Atlas Missile from rust and corrosion. The product actually worked so well that several employees snuck some WD-40 cans out of the plant to use at home.

So using WD-40 on rockets or related GSE is keeping up the tradition.

Here is the WD-40 link for the 2000+ ways you can use it:

https://www.wd40.com/files/pdf/wd-40_2042538679.pdf

I'll agree with Brady and get a rod made from 316 stainless steel. You will still need to "de-gunk" it after flight (say with WD-40 or Hoppes 9 solvent), but with minimal care it should last and last.

Greg

 

[boomtube]

Might not hurt to spend $5 and make a pvc container to keep them straight www.vernarockets.com

Straight??!!

Launch rods have to be straight?

This could be the answer I’ve been looking for.

 

[caveduck]

Straight??!!

Launch rods have to be straight?

This could be the answer I’ve been looking for.

...and they have to STAY that way as your rocket takes off!!

My preferences...worst to best:

• Estes 2-piece (needs corrosion prevention and rockets hang up at the joint)
• 1-piece steel (still needs anti-corrosion wipe but at least your rocket will probably not hang up on it)
• Type 316 stainless rod - nearly maintenance free. Longer is better.
• Tower launcher. Get rid of the darn lugs already - 20% of the drag

That said, I still have the original 2-piece from my 1968 Tilt-a-Pad and it's perfectly serviceable.

 

[MarkII]

Ok, put down the sandpaper and step away from the rod. It's like nails on a blackboard, you just don't do that. It might even be against the Geneva Convention. When you use sandpaper to remove rust you are also removing any galvanization or protect coating, if it is not gone already.

If you need to remove some light oxidation use WD-40 and some steel wool. If it is that scaley, get a new rod and wipe it down with WD-40 occassionally and after you fly. We have been using the same rods with no rust problem for many, many years. Might not hurt to spend $5 and make a pvc container to keep them straight and oxidation free between launches but whatever you do, stop using sandpaper on your rods. :dark:

Verna
www.vernarockets.com

Funny, I have used fine-grit sandpaper on my plated steel (not SS) launch rods (bought at the local hardware store) a number of times over the years to remove hard soot deposits and none of them have ever acquired a speck of rust on them. And I have never treated them with any kind of rust inhibitor either.

I thought the Atlas (the D at least) had a stainless steel skin?

 

[Highpowerrocketyahoo]

Exactly! It's a launch rod not a chopsticks your going to eat with lol lightly sand and a little spray of WD-40 and I've had good results always

 

[Tom Amara]

I clean mine with turpentine and a scotch brite pad, then dry it and its good to go.

 

[Shade]

Particles from the exhaust will stick to the oil, which can actually increase corrosion and make your rocket more likely to stick on the rod.

Yup, dry is better.

First suggestion, Stainless Steel. Beware rods being offered made from tool steel!
Tool steel is high carbon steel and will rust like crazy.

I like to use a dry graphite spray! I will be selling this on my website along with SS rods!

Eric, Tool Steel is not a carbon steel, carbon steels have AISI designation of
10xx, 11xx, 12xx and 15xx. However you are correct they will rust, but it not
because of the carbon. Also 302, 303, and 304 stainless steel will rust stain,
they will not pit like alot of carbon and alloy steels but they will rust they
have relatively 1/2 the Nickel and Chromium found in most stainless steel like
308, 316 and 18-8. These low alloy versions of stainless steel are available
for cost reasons as well as increased formability versus their higher alloy
content grades, most stainless steels work harden, the low grades do this to
a lesser extent.

The benefit with a Tool Steel launch rod is rigidity, they are on average tools
steel grades are 30-40% more rigid than stainless, this will result in less whip
on launch and less likely to be bent in rough handling.

Yes, They will require more maintainance than stainless rods.

But it is a trade off maintenance vs. rigidity.

Straight??!!

Launch rods have to be straight?

This could be the answer I’ve been looking for.

Now that is funny!

WD-40 is not allowed in my shop or at home. Should be on the most hated
product list in my opinion. The main water displacing ingredient is Silicone
oil. Silicone can cause all kinds of issues with painting (fish eyes), metal
plating and conversion coatings (think gun blueing) and with adhesives and
sealants, causing lack of adhesion. There are several good products on the
market LPS has several aerosols that use a solvent base and are water
displacing and that are silicone free.

I have gun blued all my tool steel (drill rod) launch rods and use gun oil on
them for long storage. When I go to use them I clean them off with brake
parts cleaner. I used to use Hoppe's #9 to clean off the residue but I have
found KanoLabs Kroil to be a better gun cleaning solvent and have switched
to that, and follow up a good cleaning with gun oil and store them in a
cardboard tube with a VCI chip. I have minimal rust issues. When I do
some Kroil on fine steel wool quickly removes any rust.

I have not tried a graphite spray on my launch rod but I do use a product
from New Holland on a lot of my tractor implements and three point hitch
components that leaves a dry graphite film and does not attract all the dirt
and debris farming as grease and oils will.

It also protects from water and rust at least untill it wear off.

Might have to try it on a launch rod.

 

[MarkII]

I still say to wipe them down with a paper towel or a rag and a little bit of mineral oil when you go to store them, and then clean them off with a rag and some soapy water kept in a snap-lid container right before you insert them in the pads at set-up. Does the same job, but for much less money. If this method is good enough for $300 speed skate blades, then it's good enough for cheap steel launch rods. Use a PVC pipe with screw-on caps at each end to store your rods. For heavy cleaning, use a stainless steel Chore Boy.

You can make the process as simple or as complicated as you want, but you'll end up with the same results either way. We are only talking about cheap steel rods, after all.

 

[Highpowerrocketyahoo]

Our clubs has two low/mid pads that can hold 4 rods each 1/8 up to a 1/4. And we also have two rails and we clean them fairly regularly. I just did a launch with the boy scouts about 14 kids and so they can get kinda sooty....or our regional launch the bluegrass blast, but if you don't they can get nasty quick. We keep most in a sealed PVC tube but a gentle sanding and lube does really help.

 

[Highpowerrocketyahoo]

I clean mine with turpentine and a scotch brite pad, then dry it and its good to go.

Sounds like that would work pretty good!

 

[pick1e]

WD40 is made to displace water (the "WD" part) in electrical equipment. It is not made to lubricate, it is not made to protect against rust. It will lubricate in the real short term, but won't last very long. It will protect against rust for awhile, but not as well as products made for that purpose. Almost anything sold at a hardware store for lubrication and/or protection will do a much better job than WD40. The people that sell WD40 must have really good promoters because almost everybody associates WD40 with lubrication.

bjphoenix is right, WD-40 is not designed as a lubricant. It gets my goat when people use it as such. It also gets gummy over time, which is why you have to keep applying it- and why I wouldn't use it on my launch rod.

 

[Eric1]

Yup, dry is better.


Eric, Tool Steel is not a carbon steel, carbon steels have AISI designation of
10xx, 11xx, 12xx and 15xx. However you are correct they will rust, but it not
because of the carbon. Also 302, 303, and 304 stainless steel will rust stain,
they will not pit like alot of carbon and alloy steels but they will rust they
have relatively 1/2 the Nickel and Chromium found in most stainless steel like
308, 316 and 18-8. These low alloy versions of stainless steel are available
for cost reasons as well as increased formability versus their higher alloy
content grades, most stainless steels work harden, the low grades do this to
a lesser extent.

The benefit with a Tool Steel launch rod is rigidity, they are on average tools
steel grades are 30-40% more rigid than stainless, this will result in less whip
on launch and less likely to be bent in rough handling.

Yes, They will require more maintainance than stainless rods.

But it is a trade off maintenance vs. rigidity.


Now that is funny!

WD-40 is not allowed in my shop or at home. Should be on the most hated
product list in my opinion. The main water displacing ingredient is Silicone
oil. Silicone can cause all kinds of issues with painting (fish eyes), metal
plating and conversion coatings (think gun blueing) and with adhesives and
sealants, causing lack of adhesion. There are several good products on the
market LPS has several aerosols that use a solvent base and are water
displacing and that are silicone free.

I have gun blued all my tool steel (drill rod) launch rods and use gun oil on
them for long storage. When I go to use them I clean them off with brake
parts cleaner. I used to use Hoppe's #9 to clean off the residue but I have
found KanoLabs Kroil to be a better gun cleaning solvent and have switched
to that, and follow up a good cleaning with gun oil and store them in a
cardboard tube with a VCI chip. I have minimal rust issues. When I do
some Kroil on fine steel wool quickly removes any rust.

I have not tried a graphite spray on my launch rod but I do use a product
from New Holland on a lot of my tractor implements and three point hitch
components that leaves a dry graphite film and does not attract all the dirt
and debris farming as grease and oils will.

It also protects from water and rust at least untill it wear off.

Might have to try it on a launch rod.

Thanks for the correction! You are right about the AISI specs. It is my understanding that all tool steels harden all the way through because of carbon content. I've always assumed the "high"carbon content was the reason for this. Let me pick your brain a minute, What about 17-4 condition 900? Precipatation hardending SS, Then a 10 micron coating of TDC1?

That should be nice and stiff and the chromium deposit would help the rust issue. I like your use of Blueing, Have you ever tried Parkerising"

Thanks,
Eric

 

[scoop55]

Prior to lubing my rod I hit it with 400 grit sandpaper first to smooth it out as it is an older rod.

Key words:
Lubing
rod
hit it
smooth

 

[modeltrains]

My wife hit upon this idea to keep a rod slick (take that whatever way you want), Take a crumpled up ball of wax paper (like you find in any grocery store) and slide it up and down the rod a few times pre and post launch. Cheap, non-toxic, easy to apply and store, and effective. It won't remove rust, but should help prevent it.FC

We as kids did that on metal slides at playground.

 

[dlb]

Yes! Wd-40 will help: but chucking that old nasty rusty steel rod for a 304 or 316 stainless steel rod with totally remove the rust factor.

It's still a great idea to wipe them down with "Fantastic" cleaner after a launch and give a light coat of WD-40 to keep them slick and smooth

AGREED, SS is the answer and a smooch of WD-40

 

[C-57D]

WD-40 is better than salty water at preventing rust, but not by much.

You're better off replacing that rod with a stainless rod, but until then, try a wipedown with synthetic motor oil, or ATF.

 

[Micromeister]

If ya don't like WD-40, use CRC-56 as many have offered a very light wipe with it on a paper towel is all thats required after a quick wipe down of your Stainless Steel rods with plain old Fantastic clear. If you have lots of Burned on APCP residue some White Vinagar takes care of it almost as quickly as it can be applied.

I haven't even looked at a Music wire or plain steel launch rod in over 30 years they just are not worth the time. I'm still using 1/8" and 3/16" rods purchased and processed back in the mid 80's.

Spend a couple extra dollars now on 316 alloy Stainless unless badly abused they will outlast your envolvment in the hobby

OBTW: making a screw plugged PVC carrier is very simple, doesn't cost that much and will protect those rods quite well

 

[Solomoriah]

I use DuPont Teflon wax lubricant on my motorcycle chain; it dries to a slick surface (wax, of course). I wonder how it would work on a launch rod... may have to try that.

Edit: This is the stuff. I get it at Lowes.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009LSXOA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[[POW]Eagle159]

All I have is the estes maxi rod... All I do is wipe it down with a wet paper towel..easy enough! :wink: but then again I only launch A-E engines.:tongue:

 

[RimfireJim]

Some correct info, some incorrect:

Eric, Tool Steel is not a carbon steel, carbon steels have AISI designation of
10xx, 11xx, 12xx and 15xx. However you are correct they will rust, but it not
because of the carbon. Also 302, 303, and 304 stainless steel will rust stain,
they will not pit like a lot of carbon and alloy steels but they will rust they
have relatively 1/2 the Nickel and Chromium found in most stainless steel like
308, 316 and 18-8. These low alloy versions of stainless steel are available
for cost reasons as well as increased formability versus their higher alloy
content grades, most stainless steels work harden, the low grades do this to
a lesser extent.

So far, so good.

The benefit with a Tool Steel launch rod is rigidity, they are on average tools
steel grades are 30-40% more rigid than stainless, this will result in less whip
on launch and less likely to be bent in rough handling.

Yes, They will require more maintainance than stainless rods.

But it is a trade off maintenance vs. rigidity.

A bit off, there. Rigidity (stiffness), all other things (dimensions) being equal, is directly proportional to the modulus of elasticity, or Young's modulus, denoted as "E" in engineering equations. E is not affected by heat treatment or other processes, and is not related to strength. E for all carbon and alloy steels is right around 30000 ksi. E for O1 tool steel is 31000 ksi; E for 316 stainless is 28000 ksi. So that is a 7% difference in stiffness, not 30-40%

But you are probably referring not to stiffness, but to strength, since you write about the rods "getting bent", which is related to yield strength, not modulus of elasticity. That's a different animal, and much tougher to pin down, because yield strength DOES depend on things like heat treatment and work hardening. You would have to know specifically how the material was processed to be able to make a comparison.
O1 Oil-hardening Tool Steel, oil quenched at 800°C, tempered at 425°C has a yield strength of 218000 ksi; 316 Stainless Steel, annealed bar has a yield strength of 34800 ksi, a factor of over 6X difference! Even 316 Stainless Steel, annealed and cold drawn bar is only 60200 ksi. (Ref. https://www.matweb.com/)

WD-40 is not allowed in my shop or at home. Should be on the most hated
product list in my opinion. The main water displacing ingredient is Silicone
oil.

Not according to WD-40. From their FAQ page on their website: "While the ingredients in WD-40 are secret, we can tell you what WD-40 does NOT contain. WD-40 does not contain silicone, kerosene, water, wax, graphite, chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), or any known cancer-causing agents." (Ref. https://www.wd40.com/faqs/#a92)
I've used WD-40 for years for light-duty rust protection of garden tools and such (I live in a dry climate). I also do woodworking and auto body finishing, and I've seen no evidence of contamination from WD-40. I also have a can of silicone spray lubricant, and its characteristics are totally different than that of WD-40.

 

[BigRiJoe]

Verna, if I was a model rocket, and you had a launch controller in your hand, I would pray for an ignitor misfire!

 

[RocketManDan]

1/8", 3/16" x 36" from 72" rods purchased, 1/4" x 72" either 303 or 316 Stainless steel. All from McMaster-Carr. There are some other places but for security and getting exactly what you order McMaster is my first choice always.

I'm still using the same 1/8" and 3/16" x 36" rod in my solar launcher that I put in it when built in the mid 1980's. I've had a couple 1/4" rods bent by others over the years but even so I'm still using one that's more then 15.
With just a little care they will be the last launch rods you'll ever buy.
www.mcmaster.com

I also bought my rods from McMasters. I bought 6' lengths of 1/8", 3/16" and 1/4". The 1/8 and 3/16 I cut in half because at that length they produce too much whip. I bought stainless too...I'm assuming maybe a quick wipe with simple green in a spray bottle and silicone spray should do the trick. No worries about them rusting. Paid a pretty penny for the rods..well not so much the rods as it is to ship them because of their length.

 

[bjphoenix]

A bit off, there. Rigidity (stiffness), all other things (dimensions) being equal, is directly proportional to the modulus of elasticity, or Young's modulus, denoted at "E" in engineering equations. E is not affected by heat treatment or other processes, and is not related to strength.

Jim, you beat me to it!

 

[MarkII]

All I have is the estes maxi rod... All I do is wipe it down with a wet paper towel..easy enough! :wink: but then again I only launch A-E engines.:tongue:

I read on the forum some years ago that Estes launch rods are composed of stiff aluminum alloy. I'm not sure if that's right, but if it's not, my guess would be that they are plated steel. I can find plated steel rods in my local hardware stores in diameters as small as 3/16" (Maxi-rod size) but not in 1/8". I agree with the advice to go with stainless steel; it will avoid all of these problems. All stainless steel resists corrosion, but some varieties are better than others. Choose a highly resistant variety such as Type 316 (aka marine-grade stainless steel).

 

[RimfireJim]

I read on the forum some years ago that Estes launch rods are composed of stiff aluminum alloy.

That would be wrong, on two counts:
1. They are plated steel. A magnet test will confirm the steel part.
2. Any aluminum alloy has a modulus of elasticity around 10000 ksi (compared with 30000 ksi for steel), so one aluminum alloy isn't going to be any stiffer than another, and all would have 3X the flex of a steel rod of the same dimensions.

What's interesting is that Estes included a 1/4" aluminum rod with the "The Dude", which, despite being 33% bigger in diameter than the 3/16"steel Maxi-Rod, is only 5% stiffer because of the lower modulus of elasticity. The aluminum rod weighs only about 60% of what a 3/16" steel rod would, though, so that is some advantage.

The late Sheldon Brown has a pretty good layman's explanation of these properties, along with debunking some myths about frame materials, on one of his bicycling article pages: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-materials.html

I can find plated steel rods in my local hardware stores in diameters as small as 3/16" (Maxi-rod size) but not in 1/8".

1/8" x 36" steel rod can be found at a welding supply store.

 

[MarkII]

No welding supply shops around here. The hardware stores are pretty good, though. I'm not at all knowledgeable about material science so when people talk about things like modulus of elasticity I quickly get lapped.

BTW, I spent my entire road racing career on aluminum frames, and I never found the ride to be "harsh and unforgiving." I very much preferred them to steel frames. Getting onto a steel-frame bike after having logged so many miles on Al always felt to me like I was jumping onto something made out of rebar.

 

[MarkII]

1/8" x 36" steel rod can be found at a welding supply store.

Yes, I can easily find plain cold roll steel rods in 1/8" diameter, but what I was talking about was plated steel rods in that size.

 

[Ford Prefect]

I use sandpaper to get the rust off (progressing from 220-800) the I use a good car wax (meguiars) and wax them. After the launch I'll use mequiars Quick Detail (a spray cleaner wax) and I haven't ever had them rust.

Cj

 

[JStarStar]

Nyuk-nyuk-nuyk!!!

I use steel wool on the launch rod, then spray a quick shot of WD-40 on a shop rag, wipe it up and down, then wipe it with a dry rag. Graphite lock lube is also a real good launch rod lube, so I have been told.

You don't want wax or actual droplets of lubricant on the rod -- wax especially could end up binding more than helping. You want a very light surface film.

Since each rocket you launch is going to leave a gritty film of exhaust smoke residue on the launch rod, it's usually smart to give it a quick shot with steel wool every 3-4 launches just to keep it smooth.

Before I store the rod away for the winter I give it a good rubdown with a WD-40 rag -- wintertime is when a lot of your corrosion is going to appear.

 

[GDJ]

I used steel wool and graphite spray. Graphite is a high temp, high load dry lubricant that is also pretty good at repelling water. After the spray is dry, grab a clean cloth and rub the launch rod once or twice gently, then the graphite is somewhat polished. Now the launch rod is very slippery, and the graphite on the rod won't come off on your rocket nearly as easily.