Ukraine Turning Old Light Planes Into Drones

[brockrwood]

The Ukranian military converted a Cessna-type light plane into a remote-controlled “drone” bomb. They just packed the light, civil aviation style plane with explosives and the remote controlled it to its target - a Russian drone factory 600 miles inside Russian territory.

If this really works, think how many cheap drones could be made by Ukraine - or any country. Or even a non-governmental organization.

I wonder how the remote control worked?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davida...drone-factory-600-miles-away/?sh=7a28abc71dc0

 

[Hobie1dog]

Hard to believe it can go that far away and be accurate, drones sure have made amazing advancements the last 5 years.

 

[brockrwood]

Hard to believe it can go that far away and be accurate, drones sure have made amazing advancements the last 5 years.

I read speculation on the internet that maybe it was launched under remote control, flew on auto-pilot, and then a spy near the target took over remote control again to try to crash it into the target.

 

[smstachwick]

I read speculation on the internet that maybe it was launched under remote control, flew on auto-pilot, and then a spy near the target took over remote control again to try to crash it into the target.

I’m also wondering if there may have been some kind of satellite system to grant en-route guidance. I’d be really worried about a system like this making a mess from losing guidance for a few hundred miles. I think either that or activating autopilot through a radio command is most likely.

 

[teepot]

I was amazed it flew 1000 kilometers and didn't get shot down. Or the other one that flew 1000 kilometers.

 

[cwbullet]

Hard to believe it can go that far away and be accurate, drones sure have made amazing advancements the last 5 years.

The key is GPS. Modern GPS can make the lowest tech drone pretty accurate.

 

[Frederocket]

The key is GPS. Modern GPS can make the lowest tech drone pretty accurate.

That is true. In addition, the range of a programed GPS guided drone, that is not Geo-fenced, is limited in range only by the power source ability to sustain flight to its targeted programed location.

 

[brockrwood]

That is true. In addition, the range of a programed GPS guided drone, that is not Geo-fenced, is limited in range only by the power source ability to sustain flight to its targeted programed location.

Geo-fenced?

 

[Frederocket]

Geo-fenced?

Most recent drone programs that use GPS allow for limits on range and altitude, either manually programmable at setup or preprogrammed by the manufacture during set-up, such as DJI drones.

 

[brockrwood]

I was amazed it flew 1000 kilometers and didn't get shot down. Or the other one that flew 1000 kilometers.

Per speculation on the internet, some people think the sheer “innocuousness” of a light plane flying at low speed overhead is its key to success. Even in Russia it seems, there is nothing out of the ordinary when a Cessna-type light plane flies overhead. That happens a lot all over the world.

This plane was even lighter than a Cessna 172. It is believed to be a converted “Aeroprakt A-22”, made in Ukraine and sold around the world, either completely built or as a kit. It is technically an “ultralight” plane. Wouldn’t that make it even lighter than a Cessna 172?

 

[cwbullet]

You gotta love the ingenuity.

 

[Hobie1dog]

If you owned one of these planes, you would now be nervous to fly it, as some people down there they're going to think it's a drone loaded with bombs and shoot you out of the air.

 

[Peartree]

The type is so innocuous that one once landed in Red Square before authorities suspected its destination.

 

[brockrwood]

If you owned one of these planes, you would now be nervous to fly it, as some people down there they're going to think it's a drone loaded with bombs and shoot you out of the air.

Good point.

 

[brockrwood]

Good point.

If you owned one of these planes, you would now be nervous to fly it, as some people down there they're going to think it's a drone loaded with bombs and shoot you out of the air.

Knowing the Kremlin’s basic MO (shoot first, ask questions later - think Korean Airlines Flight 007) I think Putin will now shoot down any light plane anywhere near something important. He doesn’t care about innocent lives lost or collateral damage. If Ukraine sends more of these light plane drones over Russia, and the Russians can’t or won’t shoot them down, then Ukraine will have exposed a gaping hole in Russia’s air defenses.

 

[rocket_troy]

Knowing the Kremlin’s basic MO (shoot first, ask questions later - think Korean Airlines Flight 007) I think Putin will now shoot down any light plane anywhere near something important. He doesn’t care about innocent lives lost or collateral damage. If Ukraine sends more of these light plane drones over Russia, and the Russians can’t or won’t shoot them down, then Ukraine will have exposed a gaping hole in Russia’s air defenses.

Maybe another reason the Prigozhins of Russia might need to think twice before boarding a private aircraft in Russia too.

TP

 

[ReynoldsSlumber]

The type is so innocuous that one once landed in Red Square before authorities suspected its destination.

Things have indeed changed since Mathias Rust flew a Cessna 172 from western Europe to Red Square... on a (to some degree successful!) mission of peace.

 

[brockrwood]

Wait a minute. If you can turn a light, civil aviation plane into a drone bomb that can be guided by GPS, very accurately, to attack a target deep inside the enemy’s territory, why can’t you do the same thing with old fighter planes, some of them supersonic? Aren’t there thousands of MiG-23’s and F-5’s scattered around the world? Buy them up cheap, put a huge bomb in ‘em, install the GPS guidance system, and launch salvos of these supersonic “cruise missile” like drone planes at the enemy. Who needs a specially-made, brand new drone?

 

[Hobie1dog]

Wait a minute. If you can turn a light, civil aviation plane into a drone bomb that can be guided by GPS, very accurately, to attack a target deep inside the enemy’s territory, why can’t you do the same thing with old fighter planes, some of them supersonic? Aren’t there thousands of MiG-23’s and F-5’s scattered around the world? Buy them up cheap, put a huge bomb in ‘em, install the GPS guidance system, and launch salvos of these supersonic “cruise missile” like drone planes at the enemy. Who needs a specially-made, brand new drone?

Like those pictures you see of hundreds of old models of fighter planes lined up in the desert wasting away.

 

[brockrwood]

Yeah! Wikipedia says there were 1,189 T-38’s made. Then 1,204 F-5 A through D’s, then 1,399 F-5 E’s and F’s. And that’s just F-5’s. There are other, old “light fighter” export and trainer planes that were sold around the world by the thousands. I am going to send an email to Zelenskyy’s email suggestion box.

 

[brockrwood]

Like those pictures you see of hundreds of old models of fighter planes lined up in the desert wasting away.

Raid the boneyards to make drones to beat the bad guys!

 

[ReynoldsSlumber]

Wait a minute. If you can turn a light, civil aviation plane into a drone bomb that can be guided by GPS, very accurately, to attack a target deep inside the enemy’s territory, why can’t you do the same thing with old fighter planes, some of them supersonic? Aren’t there thousands of MiG-23’s and F-5’s scattered around the world?

There's a long-running program with the USAF to ocnvert retired fighter jets into target drones.

 

[Art Upton]

Big Old fast and loud Fighters will trigger SAMs to shoot them down.

 

[brockrwood]

Big Old fast and loud Fighters will trigger SAMs to shoot them down.

How many SAMs does Russia have and how are they spread out? If Ukraine launched, say 10 old fighter jet drones in a salvo, maybe one or two would get through? Get through to something important. An artillery shell factory, or a factory making spare parts for armored fighting vehicles. Or a drone factory.

 

[brockrwood]

There's a long-running program with the USAF to ocnvert retired fighter jets into target drones.

And the QF-16 is made from pretty capable, but retired, F-16 A through C’s. The Ukraine drones could be made from any old fighter, even subsonic types. It would be quantity and launching in salvos to overwhelm air defenses that matters.

On the other hand, if this were practical to do, wouldn’t the Ukranians have done it already? Maybe it is just lack of cash, airframes and the time to do the conversions.

 

[smstachwick]

Wait a minute. If you can turn a light, civil aviation plane into a drone bomb that can be guided by GPS, very accurately, to attack a target deep inside the enemy’s territory, why can’t you do the same thing with old fighter planes, some of them supersonic? Aren’t there thousands of MiG-23’s and F-5’s scattered around the world? Buy them up cheap, put a huge bomb in ‘em, install the GPS guidance system, and launch salvos of these supersonic “cruise missile” like drone planes at the enemy. Who needs a specially-made, brand new drone?

The key to this mission’s success was that the aircraft was inconspicuous until it was too late. Anything hitting Mach 2 is going to be military. It’s essentially a different mission, being too sneaky to notice vs being too fast to catch. This is what makes aircraft like the F-22 so deadly, being both, but they paid through the nose to develop it.

This mission demonstrated that sneaky can be had for cheap in Russian airspace.

 

[rocket_troy]

Big Old fast and loud Fighters will trigger SAMs to shoot them down.

By the same token, loud (as in radar signature) fighters can be quite beneficial when operating stealth aircraft in proximity - for the reduced detectability of the stealth aircraft.

TP

 

[brockrwood]

By the same token, loud (as in radar signature) fighters can be quite beneficial when operating stealth aircraft in proximity - for the reduced detectability of the stealth aircraft.

TP

So the Russians shoot SAMs and launch interceptors to shoot down the old fighter jet drones and then a wave of Cessna 172 drones hit their targets.

 

[smstachwick]

So the Russians shoot SAMs and launch interceptors to shoot down the old fighter jet drones and then a wave of Cessna 172 drones hit their targets.

Probably not even aircraft that big.

 

[Hobie1dog]

The sad part about all of this is how primitive and ignorant humans are and wanting to kill the Masses with no remorse