Yeah, it was fun to watch Bdale lay out that board. He kept saying 'I'll bet I can shave off another few mm if I just move parts around and reroute the board'. He's nuts, and he knows it
The problem in rocketry is that people have been conditioned to expect massive, massive sales in huge quantities around Thanksgiving, which lets them stock up and basically avoid buying motors full-price entirely. Unlike durable goods like a camera or a computer for which waiting to buy incurs an opportunity cost (you don't get to use them until you buy them), rocket motors last until you use them, so there is no incentive for consumers to buy reloads at full price ever when there are sales that are repetitive and predictable.
Example 1: Netbooks. All netbooks were essentially the same (because of Intel crippling the Atom and not developing it further), so different computer manufacturers competed on cost rather than features and quality. They largely (but not entirely) disappeared from the market, since they were unprofitable for the manufacturers. Ultrabooks don't seem to be making that same mistake, since various manufacturers' hardware are surprisingly different, meaning there is more to compete on than price.
I was not saying that people do, but there is definitely the potential for that to occur, which would be disastrous for the hobby.
Actually, I think that the demise of the netbook was the emergence of something better. With the advent of tablet-type devices the netbook's niche was "moved" to a more useful form factor. I have OSX running on a Dell Mini9 - and it is pretty usable except that the netbook form factor is kind of irritating as compared to an iPad or whatever Android tablet you like - the screen is small, the keyboard cramped and the battery life is pretty terrible. However, at the time, it was a good solution for a portable device which wasn't astronomical in price. I suppose that it has some life as an on-site machine for launches - I can run rocksim for motor modeling pull altimeter configs and all that off if I needed to. Just another example of where technological innovation makes today's "must haves" into "can't get rid ofs".
I'm curious what Mr K. (Scott, if I may) thinks of AT and CTI's "Cert for Free" programs that are out there now. Free motors and free HW!!!
CTI/AT - they are like the GM/Ford/Toyota/Honda: they have large "volume" and a wide variety of options from pedestian/appliance to sporty.
Loki - BMW M-series /MB AMG / Lotus / Porsche: They have a target market which is more interested in "performance" - and people are willing to pay extra for it and don't normally see a discount.
3) Many of us know the same sort of sad tale is true of local hardware stores. Lowe's and Home Depot are great, but just try to find ONE screw or nut when you're working on a project, or a sales person who can tell you what paint you need or how to repair your broken "whosit."
I can also quite honestly say that the professional way in which Scott has handled this discussion has me ready to try some Loki propellant in the future.
Quaranta said:I object. :smile: Assumes facts not in evidence.Originally Posted by CarVac
The problem in rocketry is that people have been conditioned to expect massive, massive sales in huge quantities around Thanksgiving, which lets them stock up and basically avoid buying motors full-price entirely. Unlike durable goods like a camera or a computer for which waiting to buy incurs an opportunity cost (you don't get to use them until you buy them), rocket motors last until you use them, so there is no incentive for consumers to buy reloads at full price ever when there are sales that are repetitive and predictable.
<I'm not a lawyer,... but I did watch a crime show last week!>
I'd be curious to hear Tim's motor sales stats by month.
I'd be surprised if November was more than 20% of his years motor sales. I don't think most buyers are ordering a years supply of motors in 6 hours 1 saturday morning in November.
Considering that most of Tim's November / December sales do occur on that day,... one would expect it to be nearly 20% just by compressing late fall sales to they single day.
Wayco said:I think we should keep things in perspective. This is one 16 year old that didn't get the same type of experience with WILDMAN that he gets with Apogee. Think about it. One thing these two vendors have in common is their first names, other than that their business models are completely different. I have been buying stuff from Apogee since 2006, and spent more with Wildman in one Saturday morning than I ever did with Apogee. It's a totally different world that Mason H has very little knowledge of. Most of us that got stuff in this sale knew going in what to expect. I wasn't looking for frequent flier miles when I logged into the Wildman website, I wanted a big fiberglass rocket for a smokin' deal. Ended up with five fiberglass rockets and every one of them was for a great price....
Quaranta said:Originally Posted by CarVac
I was not saying that people do buy everything , but there is definitely the potential for that to occur, which would be disastrous for the hobby.
Only if a significant percentage do. If 1-2% do,... that's not fatal to a viable business. The flip side is,... how many are lured in by discounted motors who otherwise wouldn't? But I think the flip side is people buy things they otherwise wouldn't.
I only intended on buying a mini-eagle, and some 75mm H/w
But,... in the end I bought a 2.6" FG Pike (mad cow) and a 3" Black Dark Star... with a 54mm tube (in addition to the Mini-eagle) as prices were good. And then bought some 54mm hw for the darkstar.
Well guess what will be in my future? Motors for the new rockets, including 54mm variety that I wouldn't have bought otherwise.
WILDMANRS said:Are you kidding me not even the manufactures stock that much inventory.Originally Posted by MasonH
Hell yeah, I'm serious. Between all of the problems with back orders and shipping, plus CS that is not even on the same playing field as people like Apogee, I am not all that impressed. Selling items that are not even in stock, hen telling the customer after almost 2 weeks that they have to wait X amount of time for their product to come in and THEN be shipped to them is not cool. My
We had over 2500 lbs. of fiberglass waiting for this sale this year.
And it was clearly stated that the delivery of the kits would be in time for christmas
The At starter set was supposed to labeled 4-6 weeks for delivery but we missed that on the website.
I will gladly refund your money friday as soon as I get home.
What problems with back orders and shipping
I don't know what CS is.
Last edited by WILDMANRS; Today at 06:11 PM.
uhm, no.Kinda like end of model year auto sales. Consumers are hooked on rebates and such, never expecting to pay anywhere close to MSRP......
I would say none. The cost of the reload is small compared to the rest of the rocket in many cases. Especially true of high power.... The flip side is,... how many are lured in by discounted motors who otherwise wouldn't?....
you are simplifying the car business. In many cases, GM and Ford were discounting heavily because there were too many dealers.Here is the deal with Loki, as I can understand it.
CTI/AT - they are like the GM/Ford/Toyota/Honda: they have large "volume" and a wide variety of options from pedestian/appliance to sporty.
Loki - BMW M-series /MB AMG / Lotus / Porsche: They have a target market which is more interested in "performance" - and people are willing to pay extra for it and don't normally see a discount....
One of the stories discussed during iHobby Expo was this. Manufacturers are realizing they need to support some of their smaller dealers and get away from the bigger ones. One, unnamed, is moving away from amazon. Others are considering implementing fixed online pricing (no discounts) for their products. One large, and I mean large, train company was rumored to be doing this. As a side note, an amazon buyer was at the show. Given the cold shoulder by many....I am pointing fingers at no one but history has shown that sometimes the cheapest price is the more expensive in the long run. ...
so now you will be buying motors from companies who don't follow shipping rules?... with no hazmat fee ...or .... plus have to pay hazmat, I do the math and who ever comes out lowest gets my money.
there is a saying on believing what you hear on the internet :eyeroll:...Well there's your answer. You heard the man. ...
No comments on the Magnum price list anyone?
Beezwax said:Scott I've been trying to understand what your point was with that price list from 2001
Beezwax said:I'm happy to support my local vendors, and in many cases I am knowingly paying more for something than I need to. But something that hasn't been said in this discussion is the fact that such willful excess is a luxury of the rich.
Rcktnut said:For me it's pretty much a no-brainer, I'll buy as many motors as I can afford at the time for 40% off. I don't know about anybody else but I feel better getting more "bangs" for my bucks. I like keeping at least a years supply of reloads on hand anyway. As of this coming new year it will be the first time in which I will actually save a little more for next years sale should there be one.
If there is not a sale I will buy from and try to keep in business the vendor that has the lowest everyday prices. If I can buy a reload at everyday prices for $180.00 with no hazmat fee and another vendor has the same everyday price of $225.00 with strings attached or $250.00 no strings plus have to pay hazmat, I do the math and who ever comes out lowest gets my money.
...and this is why one of the most important things I think people need to do is support the dealers who come to their launches. Even if you don't buy everything from them, buy some things.
We have two dealers who come to our field, and every year I spend money with them. Our club wants them to continue to come to our field, on a regular basis, and a lot of us spend money with them.
-Kevin
...and this is why one of the most important things I think people need to do is support the dealers who come to their launches. Even if you don't buy everything from them, buy some things.
We have two dealers who come to our field, and every year I spend money with them. Our club wants them to continue to come to our field, on a regular basis, and a lot of us spend money with them.
-Kevin
I always try to support field vendors. Quite often they make dealing with warranties easier, and they'll be there when you left that thing you really needed back at home.
Enter your email address to join: