Project Overkill Build log (Estes #9716 Star Orbiter)

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R3verb said:
Your thread was what inspired me to build this one! Can I ask, why so many altimeters on one flight? Do you have pictures? I feel like I'm basically at capacity with a single telemetrum so I'd love to see how you crammed all of that into a similarly sized e-bay.

I'm hoping the -6 works tomorrow. If I had a -8 I'd go that route but since the sim says I'm good I think I'm gunna go for it with the -6. The other thing is my model is considerably heavier because of all the fiberglass and epoxy so I'm assuming i'd want an earlier ejection than a stock star orbiter. Closed out the top and bottom of the rocket this morning.

Putting final touches on the ebay today and then it's go time!
Click to expand...
I was doing some comparative altimeter testing to give some info to one of the makers. Here are both sides of the 1/8 balsa "sled". Altimeters were mounted with small nylon screws and nuts, and the ION's LiPoly cells were held with velcro. The FS Mini was just stuffed in beside the others in its little pouch. Multiples of the other two were to wash out any individual quirks on any given flight.

IMG_5862.jpgIMG_5863.jpg

Dealing with all the beeps post flight was pretty crazy, but I eventually downloaded the data from all of them so I could keep it straight.

For you I agree a 6-second delay will be enough, since your model is simming to only about 60% of the altitude of a stock Star Orbiter on an F15.
 
R3verb said:
Ok people, I’ve been hard at work on this one. Over the last few weeks I got the tubes fiberglassed, filled and sanded and they are now perfectly smooth. View attachment 608265

Fiberglassing was a real adventure. My first one the ends started to warp and I got freaked out so I pulled the shrink wrap off while the epoxy was still wet. This gave me a super terrible finish. Luckily I was smart and started with the top tube (the one without the fin slots) so it was as simple as doing another 18” BT-60 tube which I already had on hand and had purchased enough glass to mess up twice. The second one did better though the shrink wrap tube was kinda a PITA. For the last one (with the fin slots) I went with the fiberglass sleeve but did a regular milar wrap and this gave me the best surface finish and will be my method going forward.

Once everything was glasses, I mixed up some epoxy with body filler, filled the low spots and sanded it back. Now they are perfectly smooth and ready for primer:
View attachment 608266

The other thing I’ve been working on is the e-bay. As I said, I wanted to do a fully 3D printed e-bay for this rocket. It took a couple of iterations but I finally am happy with the result:
View attachment 608267

View attachment 608268

View attachment 608269

Lastly, I got the switch ring cut and epoxied to the e-bay tube tonight:
View attachment 608270

Once this is cured (tomorrow) I’ll use my 3D printed hole jig to get the sheet pin and removable rivet holes drilled and I’ll finally be able to joint the upper and lower halves!

View attachment 608271

Next is motor mount and fins. I think I’m going to do one layer of tip to tip glass on them just for added strength but not go too crazy.
Click to expand...
That’s a nice sled design. Mind sharing the STL for it? Also where did you source the pull pin?
 
She flew for the first time! Honestly, a perfect flight. It was a great flight on an Estes F15-6 motor.

Here's a link to the flight on YouTube:

Here's the stats:

Flight Stats.png
Flight Graph.png

The only "failure" was that the rocket never made it above 800'. It simmed to 885' but the launch rod felt a bit sticky (I'm assuming my alignment of my lugs isn't perfect) so I assume that's what accounts for those 100'. Since it didn't hit 800' and the telemetrum is set to deploy the main at 800, it deployed apogee and main at the same time. Not a big deal since everything worked but I would have loved to have seen the delayed main release. I set the telemetrum to 500' for the main for the next flight so we'll see how that goes.

Based on how well everything did, I'm tempted to go for my L1 with this rocket. I think with how overbuilt it is, it should survive an L1 motor for sure.

There's another club launch this weekend so I'm hoping to get another flight on it. Thanks for all the advice on this thread!

Casey Levinger
 
Well, flight 2 of Overkill was a little more............spicy. After flight 1 I was feeling pretty confident in the build quality of the rocket so at the launch today, I decided to throw caution to the wind and go for my L1 cert with this rocket. Needless to say, the H135w packs a bit more punch than the F15.

1717383174582.png

I am happy to report that everything survived and, pending some paperwork, I should be L1 certified! The only thing that broke was the plastic Estes parachute that I was using for the drogue. I'll be replacing that with a nice nylon one.

(Also can we just acknowledge the fact that my L1 cert went to 4600' and hit mach 1 and came down on dual sep dual deploy and I used GPS to recover it with my 4 year old kid on my back? Who does that???)
 
“Wait a minute, wait a minute, Doc…are you telling me you built a certification rocket out of an Estes kit?”

“The way I see it, if you’re going to certify, why not do it with some style?!”
 
R3verb said:
I am happy to report that everything survived and, pending some paperwork, I should be L1 certified! The only thing that broke was the plastic Estes parachute that I was using for the drogue. I'll be replacing that with a nice nylon one.

(Also can we just acknowledge the fact that my L1 cert went to 4600' and hit mach 1 and came down on dual sep dual deploy and I used GPS to recover it with my 4 year old kid on my back? Who does that???)
Click to expand...
Congrats! You indeed took it above and beyond. I did my L1 to 4,000'-ish with DD & GPS, but I didn't go near Mach, and I didn't have a 4yo as a back pack. :D
 
Ok so quick question. First flight was on the Estes F15. Going back and looking at the numbers, it actually looks like that motor is somewhat underpowered. That being said, it worked.......... did I get away with one? I have one more of those motors and would love to fly it this weekend at the club launch but also don't wana hurt anybody or the rocket. Thoughts? You can see the video of it flying on the F15 higher up in the thread.
 
[never mind]

Just on the edge for the F15-6. Definitely a bit slow getting started but not look slow but not terrible. Weathercocked a bit (which no doubt accounts for at least some of your lost altitude). Looks ok for a calm day.
 
R3verb said:
Ok so quick question. First flight was on the Estes F15. Going back and looking at the numbers, it actually looks like that motor is somewhat underpowered. That being said, it worked.......... did I get away with one? I have one more of those motors and would love to fly it this weekend at the club launch but also don't wana hurt anybody or the rocket. Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Personally wouldn't fly with a takeoff speed that low, but your empty weight is lighter than several rockets Estes specs (unwisely IMO) for that motor. Perhaps discuss with your RSO ahead of time, and perhaps consider a heads-up flight? Also, seeing as the weekend is a ways away yet, maybe you have time to get a thrustier motor?
 
KenECoyote said:
Incredible build, especially for an L1 and definitely certing with style! :clapping:

Any thoughts on what you'll do for Level 2? With all you did here, it's likely in the bag.
Click to expand...
Thanks! It was a fun build an honestly, I didn’t intent on flying it as my L1 but after seeing how overbuilt it was, I thought I’d go for broke lol. My original L1 Cert idea was this thread:

https://www.rocketryforum.com/threads/project-blackout-l1-cert-build.176584/#post-2592173

So now that’s my L2 cert rocket. I’ll be doing something very similar, glass the tube, tip to tip glass and a custom Av-bay. I’m hoping to figure it out to where I can fly a GoPro on that flight. We’ll see. That one should also have redundant flight computers which will be comforting.
 
bad_idea said:
Personally wouldn't fly with a takeoff speed that low, but your empty weight is lighter than several rockets Estes specs (unwisely IMO) for that motor. Perhaps discuss with your RSO ahead of time, and perhaps consider a heads-up flight? Also, seeing as the weekend is a ways away yet, maybe you have time to get a thrustier motor?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the feedback. Probably a dumb question but what’s the risk? My assumption is that with a low speed of the rail you risk the rocket pitching over? I’d love to understand what to look out for and possible mitigations to flying right at the lower limits.

As for getting another motor, I’m sure I could. I actually have a G76 reload ready to go but I want to fly that in my overbuilt Der Big Red Max with an RC parachute. At this point I want to fly it on the smaller motor to keep it low and because I have it lying around.
 
R3verb said:
Sorry, here's the data:

View attachment 653825

View attachment 653826
Click to expand...
How is your parachute deployment configured? The velocity at deployment is virtually identical for all motors, with a significant range of matching between optimum delay and delay cited in the motor name. That velocity is also really high, seemingly risking a zipper or recovery gear damage.
 
SolarYellow said:
How is your parachute deployment configured? The velocity at deployment is virtually identical for all motors, with a significant range of matching between optimum delay and delay cited in the motor name. That velocity is also really high, seemingly risking a zipper or recovery gear damage.
Click to expand...
It’s electronic dual deploy with the motor ejection as a backup for the drogue.
 
R3verb said:
Thanks for the feedback. Probably a dumb question but what’s the risk? My assumption is that with a low speed of the rail you risk the rocket pitching over?
Click to expand...
Rocket takes off before fins have enough authority to keep the rocket stable. Could pitch over, could skywrite, could head for the crowd. At that takeoff speed, none of those outcomes are likely (and they clearly didn't happen before), but why take the risk vs. taking off a little faster?

My personal rule of thumb is an exit speed of 15m/s for a rocket of normal stability in low winds, just under the 50 ft/s I see a lot of other people use. Below that speed, I start thinking about possibly calling a heads-up. Much below that speed, I don't fly. For highly stable rockets, I look for more speed, sometimes a lot more. Same when there's a wind. Could be I'm overly conservative, but I note that Thrustcurve's "Match a Rocket" feature defaults to a safe takeoff speed of 15m/s too, so I'm not the only one.

F15 is a great motor but belongs (IMO) in a much lighter rocket. (As mentioned above, Estes clearly disagree.)
 

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