LOC/Precision Force Ten L3 kit

[krislhull]

Looks like the kit is available for sale now...

https://locprecision.com/collections/new-in/products/force-ten

 

[Tim51]

Looks like the kit is available for sale now...

https://locprecision.com/collections/new-in/products/force-ten

Interesting - I see they've also brought the 7.5" Hawk back into production:
https://locprecision.com/collections/rockets-7-675-diameter/products/yank-hawk-7-5

 

[mtnmanak]

These are cool kits, but they will be that much more cool if/when LOC can get the PML style fiberglass nosecones back online and offer them either as an option when you buy the kit or as a separate purchase. I would love to move a couple of my kits over to the FG nosecone and will do so as soon as they are available. If this kit came with the nosecone that @ECayemberg used in this build build post, I would order one right now.

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

These are cool kits, but they will be that much more cool if/when LOC can get the PML style fiberglass nosecones back online and offer them either as an option when you buy the kit or as a separate purchase. I would love to move a couple of my kits over to the FG nosecone and will do so as soon as they are available. If this kit came with the nosecone that @ECayemberg used in this build build post, I would order one right now.

Why do you prefer the PML cones? I like both but curious on your reasoning.

 

[mtnmanak]

Why do you prefer the PML cones? I like both but curious on your reasoning.

Well, for one thing, I think I have 6 or 7 of the 7.5" plastic nosecones hanging around, most of them have been converted to the RNWS, so I don't really want/need yet another plastic nosecone setup. I do have a couple of the 11.4" PML FG nosecones, but, somehow, I never bought one of the 7.5" PML glass cones. The other things that is cool about them is that they are a completely different ogive profile (looks like 5:1 vs 3:1 to my untrained eye?) than the plastic ones and longer, so they make a different rocket style.

At the end of the day, I guess I am just looking forward to having the option to fly/design my 7.5" LOC rockets with either style of NC.

 

[AlexBruccoleri]

Well, for one thing, I think I have 6 or 7 of the 7.5" plastic nosecones hanging around, most of them have been converted to the RNWS, so I don't really want/need yet another plastic nosecone setup. I do have a couple of the 11.4" PML FG nosecones, but, somehow, I never bought one of the 7.5" PML glass cones. The other things that is cool about them is that they are a completely different ogive profile (looks like 5:1 vs 3:1 to my untrained eye?) than the plastic ones and longer, so they make a different rocket style.

At the end of the day, I guess I am just looking forward to having the option to fly/design my 7.5" LOC rockets with either style of NC.

I feel the same.

 

[ECayemberg]

These are cool kits, but they will be that much more cool if/when LOC can get the PML style fiberglass nosecones back online and offer them either as an option when you buy the kit or as a separate purchase. I would love to move a couple of my kits over to the FG nosecone and will do so as soon as they are available. If this kit came with the nosecone that @ECayemberg used in this build build post, I would order one right now.

The glass PML cones are almost back... almost available. There were some dramas with the PML mold(s) for the larger cones. If you want a Force Ten and need a glass cone, I guarantee one will be available one way or the other SOON!

 

[ECayemberg]

Let's bring this thing up to speed. My Force Ten build was indeed a quick build, and indeed it has flown successfully already; my typing fingers just didn't keep up! Shame on me, but here we are and here we go!!!

Motor mount assembly
The components of the motor mount are laid out and the aft two rings tacked in place with 5 minute epoxy. Based on the length of the motor mount, the forward ring ended up in the coupler tube (note the production version uses a slightly shorter motor tube). The stiffy was cut to length to place the forward ring ~1/4" shy of the end of the tube.




The forward centering ring is prepped with the dual U-bolts for anchoring the Y-harness. Epoxy on the nuts makes a rocketman feel secure.



I epoxied the forward ring into the Coupler/Stiffy combo. This will be epoxied into the booster tube once the rest of the motor mount assembly is in place.



...To be continued...more timely this time!

 

[mtnmanak]

Let's bring this thing up to speed. My Force Ten build was indeed a quick build, and indeed it has flown successfully already; my typing finger just didn't keep up! Shame on me, but here we are and here we go!!!

Motor mount assembly
The components of the motor mount are laid out and the aft two rings tacked in place with 5 minute epoxy. Based on the length of the motor mount, the forward ring ended up in the coupler tube (note the production version uses a slightly shorter motor tube). The stiffy was cut to length to place the forward ring ~1/4" shy of the end of the tube.
View attachment 648742

View attachment 648743

The forward centering ring is prepped with the dual U-bolts for anchoring the Y-harness. Epoxy on the nuts makes a rocketman feel secure.
View attachment 648744
View attachment 648747

I epoxied the forward ring into the Coupler/Stiffy combo. This will be epoxied into the booster tube once the rest of the motor mount assembly is in place.

View attachment 648748

...To be continued...more timely this time!

Thanks for the MMT pics!

I have been wondering how difficult it would be to modify this kit for an MMAS setup... Looks like it may require some significant re-engineering...

 

[ECayemberg]

I have been wondering how difficult it would be to modify this kit for an MMAS setup... Looks like it may require some significant re-engineering...

Agreed. Though it may be possible to use components from other MMAS rockets (like the Loc VII) instead...may or may not be an easy swap out from your friends at Loc.

 

[mtnmanak]

Thanks for the MMT pics!

Agreed. Though it may be possible to use components from other MMAS rockets (like the Loc VII) instead...may or may not be an easy swap out from your friends at Loc.

No worries, I will CNC my own wood parts and I having plenty of tubing sitting around, but I think the fin tabs would have to be trimmed in order to accommodate the 6" mother tube. That will only leave an inch+ for the fin tabs... Those are big fins.

Looking forward to the rest of your build - will use that to gauge my enthusiasm for a mod build

 

[ECayemberg]

Fin Can
Continuing in the quick build theme, fins were tacked in place. Plywood fin root to peeled motor tube with some 5 Minute epoxy making the connection. I found it reasonable to do two at a time, aligning them 180 degrees from one-another.




After two are tacked, a third is added, verifying 90 degrees from the two neighboring fins.


The fourth fin is tacked, also with 5 minute epoxy. Again, the intent is a quick build with no fancy materials. Alignment checked with a foamboard fin alignment jig that wasn't needed on this build. Also visible is a third ring that was placed mid motor to provide additional support for the long fin root.



The coupler tube/forward ring assembly is dry fit to ensure all fits together prior to gluing the motor mount/fin assembly into the aft airframe. All fits well, let's add more epoxy!

 

[DeeRoc29]

Cool kit. I saw the recent social media post of the flight on a red motor at what appears to be Black Rock. Eric, was that your flight?

 

[ECayemberg]

Cool kit. I saw the recent social media post of the flight on a red motor at what appears to be Black Rock. Eric, was that your flight?

Negative, sir. That was Force Ten #1, from Balls 2023 on a Gary Dickinson N motor. Didn't quite survive the burn; changes were made incorporated into this one and production versions. Spoiler alert: put a Stiffy in every coupler!

 

[DAllen]

Whatta monster…I mean…the kit

 

[Rocketjunkie]

Well, for one thing, I think I have 6 or 7 of the 7.5" plastic nosecones hanging around, most of them have been converted to the RNWS, so I don't really want/need yet another plastic nosecone setup. I do have a couple of the 11.4" PML FG nosecones, but, somehow, I never bought one of the 7.5" PML glass cones. The other things that is cool about them is that they are a completely different ogive profile (looks like 5:1 vs 3:1 to my untrained eye?) than the plastic ones and longer, so they make a different rocket style.

At the end of the day, I guess I am just looking forward to having the option to fly/design my 7.5" LOC rockets with either style of NC.

If you want to bond anything in the nose cone, the PML ones are far superior to the plastic ones. This is the Goblin nose cone I built in 2010. Main goes in the 6" tube. The body is available for all motor. A N will fit. Flight on 98/15360 N800:

 

[ECayemberg]

Whatta monster…I mean…the kit

Hey, I resemble that!

 

[ECayemberg]

Fin Can Finishing

Moving right along, following tacking of the fins to the 98mm mount, fillets were applied to the fin root: motor tube joint. One batch of West 105/205/Colloidal Silica was used and allowed to post cure in the sunny garage. Sorry for the less than stellar photo.



While the fillets cured, attention drifted to the booster tube. The aft end of the tube was sliced to allow for the fins to fit. The wedges were marked prior to removal, and added back into place once the fincan was installed.



Mating Fin can to aft airframe

The glassine layer was removed from the area surrounding the fin roots. A gentle slice with a #11 knife, and peel off the glassine layer; quick, simple, and effective. The completed fin can was dry-fit into the aft airframe. All slid together without issue, so the two were mated with another batch of thickened 105/205/Silica. No external epoxy at this point.

 

[ECayemberg]

Fin to Airframe Joint

This rocket has long fin roots and the prototype fins had relatively short fin tabs; this has been changed to long fin tabs in the production version. Most materials will have some warpage, the 3/8" ply in the Force Ten is no exception. No biggie, a piece of aluminum angle was used to extend lines forward from the airframe's slots to the front edge of the fin-tube joint.



Masking tape was used to align the fins with the extended lines.



Blue tape (easy release) was added to the "underside" of the fin to dam epoxy that will be added next...



And unfilled, runny West 105/205 epoxy was poured into the valleys of the unsupported forward portions of the fins. This was repeated one more time for the flip 180 degree side. After the blue tape was removed, the front half of the fins were secure and any gap between the fin's root and the body tube was filled.



Following this, one hefty batch of 105/205/Silica was mixed up and (8) external fillets applied to the fin to body joints.

 

[krislhull]

The glass PML cones are almost back... almost available. There were some dramas with the PML mold(s) for the larger cones. If you want a Force Ten and need a glass cone, I guarantee one will be available one way or the other SOON!

How soon? I would love a glass nosecone on my Skinwalker build!

 

[ECayemberg]

How soon? I would love a glass nosecone on my Skinwalker build!

I don't have an exact timeframe, but I do know that the primary mold had a damaged tip, and that there's an effort to repair the tip asap...just need some free time to do so. Additionally, a second mold has been secured; just needs a few surface blemishes cleaned up.

 

[ECayemberg]

As has been alluded to earlier, this project kinda flew together between Balls and Midwest Power in the second half of 2023. The tardy build thread is because life jumped in the way in an overwhelming tidal wave of work and life activities. Apologies for the delay(S), let's finish the build and get on to some flight time!

Final Assembly

I don't have a lot of photos of the completion steps, so I'll keep it brief. Fillets of West 105/205 plus colloidal silica were applied to the long fin roots. Consistency of the filled epoxy was that of peanut butter, so all were done with a single batch, and pulled with West Systems Mixing Sticks. Some use pipes, dowels, popsicle sticks, I enjoy using these sticks. Provides a nice radius, the flat side is used to scrape off epoxy, and cured epoxy peels or pops off the sticks when bent slightly. The upper booster airframe was also epoxied onto the coupler using leftover epoxy. Suddenly, we had a booster!



Once cured, the fillets were sanded briefly with some 220 grit wrapped around a dowel. Wiped away the dust with a tack cloth and threw on some primer!



This was a quick build, so surface finish was not top priority; in fact there was a desire to be able to see that this is a cardboard and plywood rocket. So a quick application of Bondo Glazing & Spot Putty over the tube joint and fillets was applied and allowed to cure. Regardless of the rocket type, I've never met a filler I like more than the Glazing putty.



Sand and re-prime. I limited the cycle of Prime-Sand-Prime to two rounds this go around. Time was short and perfection was not the end goal.



Ready for one final coat of primer.

 

[ECayemberg]

The final coat of primer was applied a mere 5 days before Midwest Power (MWP) 21 commenced. Weather was not cooperating, but I had the desire to get this monster in full color prior to putting it on the pad. Three days before leaving for Midwest Power, the fins, payload section, and nosecone were coated in gloss black paint. Nothing fancy, Rustoleum 2X. Two days prior to MWP, the black fins were taped off to allow for red paint to main airframe. A bit of a sticky situation, but time was short.



Before painting on the red, two light coats of black are sprayed on the tape line to help seal the tape; making for a smoother crisp line between the colors and less likelihood of seeping creepers!

Red was applied to the airframe, and the sections were allowed to offgas in the garage for a few hours as outside conditions were less-than-ideal.



Not my best paint effort by far, but the theme for this build was quick and easy, not perfection. Fits the bill and at least she has some color! Trim on the big girl is simple, a few hand-cut circumferential bands, fin inlays, and BOLD letters made of WTP-inc holographic silver material.

While the red was drying, the fin inlays were applied, one per side of each fin.


One of the bands was applied at the base of the cone. The other two would wait until the letters were applied.



The YYZ was allowed to rest for 24 hours prior to heading to Princeton, IL for MWP! In the meantime, the Electronics Bay was prepped separately.

 

[ECayemberg]

Midwest Power 21: Maiden Flight

Flyers descended on Princeton, Illinois over Halloween weekend 2023. The family ended up being pulled in opposite directions for the weekend, so our fleet was modest, but older son Brandon and I arrived without issue. The AmericInn served as the workshop for last minute details for the YYZ, but first, LCO duty and a Pork Tenderloin sandwich on Friday!



Back to the hotel to perform final prep on YYZ before heading to La Casa de Lehr later Friday evening. Final prep includes shiny sticker stuff! Note, the Force Ten is a two-bed rocket; a fairly large rocket!



Back at the field Saturday morning with a semi-favorable forecast, the Force Ten (HyperLOC YYZ) was fully stacked for the first time since completion. Final prep included assembling a large firestick. Brandon provided for scale.





Motor for the first flight was a full M/baby N White Tundra load for AMW 98/11,000 hardware. Working out to be an 10,240-M2777, this thrusty motor takes our 11.5" 100+lb V-2 over a mile, so I knew it would be an aggressive boost. Following the rules in Post 1, no glass reinforcement was provided on the airframe and I knew the motor would push the YYZ aggresively! The big girl was RSO'd by the legendary Jim Scarpine, as captured in @UPscaler Midwest Power 21 video: RSO

YYZ was hauled out and loaded onto a pad.





Tim Lehr was on the LCO, the button was pushed and the M2777WT lit and the YYZ left the pad in a hurry! I watched the flight while Mike Turicik from Loc captured the following liftoff shots:





and Braden captured video of the flight on his MWP 21 video: Flight Video; thanks Braden! The 11'+ tall rocket was lofted to over 10,000'!

 

[ECayemberg]

Recovery

After a great boost to nearly 2 miles, twin Missileworks RRC's deployed the laundry on cue. Not mentioned earlier, but the recovery gear is fairly standard...a section of 30' tubular nylon on the booster with strategic nomex protectors, and a section of 25' tubular nylon for the payload/main. #4-40 shear pins used for both the booster/apogee (to prevent drag separation), and on the nose/main (to prevent early main deployment). Charge wires go directly to the altimeters, arming of the electronics is accomplished via twist and tape. About as simple, plain Jane as one can go; I'm a fan of K.I.S.S., but I respect those that like to go fancy!

Preflight, we discussed that the only corn in the surrounding fields was to the north, and that the vast majority of the rockets being flown were landing far south of the corn. However, I've had a rough streak of poor landing areas as of late, so I predicted that the likelihood of me finding the lone corn in the area was pretty good. The main deployed at 1000' AGL, with backup charge visible at 800'. Rocket was just north of us and appeared to be destined for a cleared field landing.



But that's a big rocket, and a 12' main chute, so looks can be deceiving. Sure enough, it landed in the corn. After some effort, the monster was located in the corn; thanks to Randy Lutz for the photo of YYZ from his drone!



More corny photos:





If you've ever landed a rocket in corn, you know that recovery can be challenging! It takes effort to find the rocket, getting it untangled from cornstalks and reassembled to remove from the field can be interesting, carrying the thing out of the corn is always difficult, and the entire time one needs to be conscious that you're in a farmer's crop, their livelihood that they depend on, so treading lightly and minimizing damage to the crops must be top priority. Flying rockets on their land is a privilege, not a right!

Walked the YYZ out of the corn and then helped Randy find his Green Dark Star that flew right after the YYZ and landed maybe 100 yards away, but deeper in the corn. Funny story, later in the day I flew a Dynacom Tarantula on an M1315W....and ended up deep in the same corn field... okay it wasn't so funny then! The children of the corn were calling!

 

[ECayemberg]

What's Next?

After a successful first flight on the full M, the Force Ten has rested long enough! Weather permitting, she'll go up on a more modest 75mm L or M at the Tripoli Wisconsin Association launch at Bong this weekend. Looking forward to flying it on home turf!

You can expect to see a Force Ten taking to the skies at major launches this fall, including Balls, Midwest Power 22, and NSL East in GA! Further, the kit is now available through CS Rocketry, Loc Precision, and I'm sure is drop-shippable through other favorite vendors such as Wildman Hobbies. So, watch the skies and go out and get yourself one!

 

[Tim51]

Recovery

After a great boost to nearly 2 miles, twin Missileworks RRC's deployed the laundry on cue. Not mentioned earlier, but the recovery gear is fairly standard...a section of 30' tubular nylon on the booster with strategic nomex protectors, and a section of 25' tubular nylon for the payload/main. #4-40 shear pins used for both the booster/apogee (to prevent drag separation), and on the nose/main (to prevent early main deployment). Charge wires go directly to the altimeters, arming of the electronics is accomplished via twist and tape. About as simple, plain Jane as one can go; I'm a fan of K.I.S.S., but I respect those that like to go fancy!

Preflight, we discussed that the only corn in the surrounding fields was to the north, and that the vast majority of the rockets being flown were landing far south of the corn. However, I've had a rough streak of poor landing areas as of late, so I predicted that the likelihood of me finding the lone corn in the area was pretty good. The main deployed at 1000' AGL, with backup charge visible at 800'. Rocket was just north of us and appeared to be destined for a cleared field landing.

View attachment 653810

But that's a big rocket, and a 12' main chute, so looks can be deceiving. Sure enough, it landed in the corn. After some effort, the monster was located in the corn; thanks to Randy Lutz for the photo of YYZ from his drone!

View attachment 653811

More corny photos:

View attachment 653813

View attachment 653814

If you've ever landed a rocket in corn, you know that recovery can be challenging! It takes effort to find the rocket, getting it untangled from cornstalks and reassembled to remove from the field can be interesting, carrying the thing out of the corn is always difficult, and the entire time one needs to be conscious that you're in a farmer's crop, their livelihood that they depend on, so treading lightly and minimizing damage to the crops must be top priority. Flying rockets on their land is a privilege, not a right!

Walked the YYZ out of the corn and then helped Randy find his Green Dark Star that flew right after the YYZ and landed maybe 100 yards away, but deeper in the corn. Funny story, later in the day I flew a Dynacom Tarantula on an M1315W....and ended up deep in the same corn field... okay it wasn't so funny then! The children of the corn were calling!

Fantastic build thread as always. Sorry if I missed an earlier explanation, but why the 'Hyperloc YYZ' moniker not 'Force Ten'..? Was it to hide the prototype's true identity prior to the official product launch..?

 

[jmasterj]

Maybe Toronto-related?

 

[ECayemberg]

Fantastic build thread as always. Sorry if I missed an earlier explanation, but why the 'Hyperloc YYZ' moniker not 'Force Ten'..? Was it to hide the prototype's true identity prior to the official product launch..?

Thanks Tim! Great question!

Thinking back to the origins of this project, Idea Master Dave was talking about a HyperLOC-esque 7.5" Loc kit designed specifically for the L3 process. Somewhere in there, the band Rush was brought into the mix (they always are and it's a bit of a running joke ), so my project was named in reference to both the HyperLOC lineage and the Loc family's affinity for Rush via the instrumental YYZ. At the time of project inception, the new kit hadn't been named for the Rush song Force Ten yet. By the time I knew the kit was named Force Ten, my mind was already committed to the Hyperloc YYZ. Tim read the flight card as the HyperLOC 442 at Midwest Power, which I may even like more... in reference to the Olds 442!

 

[ECayemberg]

Maybe Toronto-related?

Definitely; I'm referencing the Rush song YYZ which is in reference to the Toronto airport (YYZ)!