I only have one because I picked it up at a club meeting for cheap. As you note, 29 mm cases are the most inexpensive and it makes sense to have a 240 case. Most commonly used size. There are only two reloads for the 360.
The 29/360 is too long for many of my rockets. So the 29/240 was a necessity for me. And given the cost of the RAS kit, I just bought a 29/180 instead.Just following all this, is the spacer kit really worth all the extra weight / issues. They are $60 dollars vs buying a 24-240 case for $80 or so plus the 360 complete motor you need anyway. Gets you all of the 360 - 240 reloads. Would you likely take the 360 and adapt it down to a 180? 100?
The RAS includes the closures, so that $ comparison isn't quite right. It should be RAS vs 240 complete motor, which can be better argued for the RAS side. New HPR flyers (including me a couple years ago) often concentrate on the cost side of the equation vs convenience or other factors.Just following all this, is the spacer kit really worth all the extra weight / issues. They are $60 dollars vs buying a 24-240 case for $80 or so plus the 360 complete motor you need anyway. Gets you all of the 360 - 240 reloads. Would you likely take the 360 and adapt it down to a 180? 100?
The RAS kits that I've seen or bought only had the forward closure. On the 38mm system, I had to buy an extra rear closure to give me 2 sets of closures for use with an extra tube.The RAS includes the closures, so that $ comparison isn't quite right. It should be RAS vs 240 complete motor, which can be better argued for the RAS side. New HPR flyers (including me a couple years ago) often concentrate on the cost side of the equation vs convenience or other factors.
Yeah, I tried to figure how how this fits on the floating closure. It does fit on the standard closure.There are both. The ejection charge cap is not the right size for the floating forward closure.
There is usually a tape disc included in the HPR reloads for the RAS....or just use several layers of white masking tape like I do.Yeah, I tried to figure how how this fits on the floating closure. It does fit on the standard closure.
Just following all this, is the spacer kit really worth all the extra weight / issues. They are $60 dollars vs buying a 24-240 case for $80 or so plus the 360 complete motor you need anyway. Gets you all of the 360 - 240 reloads. Would you likely take the 360 and adapt it down to a 180? 100?
Agree 100%! When I did my L1 back in 2009, DMS was not yet an option and the older single-use AT motors were long OOP, so there was no choice but to understand RMS. But those days are gone, at least if you have an on-site vendor or are willing to pay hazmat.I applaud you coming to the forum to ask the right questions and get the answers, but this thread is a good example of why I consistently recommend fliers use DMS motors for Level 1 certs.
My bad…confused with the larger motors!Hmmm..... Every one of the 29mm and 38mm motors that I've used over the last few years has included a large diameter forward plastic cap that goes over the ejection charge. Including 5 that I shot this last weekend. And there is a notation to not use it if using a baffle or anything else blocking the ejection gas path.
Hans.
Although I ended up flying L1 on a hazmat motor, Aerotech's lineup of no-Hazmat motors is what pulled me into the RMS ecosystem too. Incidentally, for after your cert or if the first cert attempt goes awry (mine did), the I200 is a beautiful hazmat-free motor for that 29/360 case, no RAS needed.This is all coming back to me - why I chose a reloadable motor and why I chose Aerotech.
This is all coming back to me - why I chose a reloadable motor and why I chose Aerotech.
The key issue was that for a single-use motor in the H category, needed for L1, I would have to have paid a hazmat fee of about 50 bucks. I hate gratuitous fees and wanted to avoid that. According to what I saw on the interweb, all the Cesaroni motors and all the Aerotech single use had that hazmat charge. If I was ordering bulk with (for example) nine other BARs each ordering 10 motors, then the extra cost for my motor would be 50 cents. But because I was ordering the motor myself, and they wouldn't trust me and sell me multiple h motors, my $50 H182R single use would have been $100.
I figured that I'd order an Aerotech reloadable H motor, many of which do not incur the dread HAZMAT fee. So I pay $194 for the 360 motor and the RAS. Its more money, but deduct the HAZMAT fee of 51 that I saved, and about a $15 difference in motor costs, and so for the difference of $128 I get the motor casing and RAS flexibility. Would have been a better idea to just get the RMS-29/240 if I really wanted a reload.
If I'd paid $45 for the SU motor and bit the bullet and paid the HAZMAt I would be dollars ahead, and probably could have launched last weekend, even feeling crummy.
But I would have missed out on learning stuff from you guys!
The stuff you are telling me is making sense. Thanks!
Actually, I like the H268R better. For some reason, it goes higher in the rockets that I have tried it in, plus there is the bonus of that nice red flame!Although I ended up flying L1 on a hazmat motor, Aerotech's lineup of no-Hazmat motors is what pulled me into the RMS ecosystem too. Incidentally, for after your cert or if the first cert attempt goes awry (mine did), the I200 is a beautiful hazmat-free motor for that 29/360 case, no RAS needed.
Another fine choice.Actually, I like the H268R better. For some reason, it goes higher in the rockets that I have tried it in, plus there is the bonus of that nice red flame!
The key issue was that for a single-use motor in the H category, needed for L1, I would have to have paid a hazmat fee of about 50 bucks. I hate gratuitous fees and wanted to avoid that. According to what I saw on the interweb, all the Cesaroni motors and all the Aerotech single use had that hazmat charge. If I was ordering bulk with (for example) nine other BARs each ordering 10 motors, then the extra cost for my motor would be 50 cents. But because I was ordering the motor myself, and they wouldn't trust me and sell me multiple h motors, my $50 H182R single use would have been $100.
I figured that I'd order an Aerotech reloadable H motor, many of which do not incur the dread HAZMAT fee. So I pay $194 for the 360 motor and the RAS. Its more money, but deduct the HAZMAT fee of 51 that I saved, and about a $15 difference in motor costs, and so for the difference of $128 I get the motor casing and RAS flexibility. Would have been a better idea to just get the RMS-29/240 if I really wanted a reload.
Bingo!This is the big selling point for AT 29mm, IMO. No HAZ charge is a big deal when you can only buy one motor and can't/don't want to rely on a field vendor. I started with the 29/180 complete motor and an H128W for my L1, and don't regret that in the slightest.
Hilarious. Ballsy, too!It didn't even shake him up when I asked about how many o-rings should be left over.
For evil fun, buy packs of spare o-rings and sprinkle them liberally on folks' tables around large launches.Hilarious. Ballsy, too!
"How many o-rings should I have left over?"
"Let's review your build and launch next time..."
Although I ended up flying L1 on a hazmat motor, Aerotech's lineup of no-Hazmat motors is what pulled me into the RMS ecosystem too. Incidentally, for after your cert or if the first cert attempt goes awry (mine did), the I200 is a beautiful hazmat-free motor for that 29/360 case, no RAS needed.
Since I build my motors at home, I would say cool, I found an extra o-ring....For evil fun, buy packs of spare o-rings and sprinkle them liberally on folks' tables around large launches.
Basically, look to see how many spacers you can use and determine what all cases you need to get in order to cover the full line. You can use those same spacers in a 240 case to get the 180 loads, or in a 180 case to get the 120 loads. So, with 2 cases and the RAS, you should be able to fly any 29mm load you want (for the HPR style cases, not the 29/40-120 loads.You could just get the RMS29-240 size motor for $149 (or less, discounted), and if you wanted to use larger motors than 240 allows, say an I motor, you could get a single use for about 5 bucks more than the reload. A lot less hassle, too. Getting the 360 and the RAS allows you access to two -motors (H268R and I200W). So you pay $169 for the 360 motor and $53 for the RAS. So about 73 bucks extra to give you access to the 240 size and those two 360 size motors. There's probably a 30 or 40g difference in mass between 240 and 360 plus RAS.
As far as going down to 180, there are folks her telling me that you can't do that. On the other hand, you do have three spacers, and if you used all three you might be able do 180 motors. Apogee's matrix chart shows that you can. I kind of tend to trust the experts here, though. So I won't be buying any 180 motors for this setup. There's only four 180 motors in the 29mm reload arena anyway as far as I can tell:
G75J-10
H128W-14
H165R-14
H238T-14A
It would be sweet if one could use those, though: You'd be able to fly G75 to I200 reloads. That said, for the number of times flying a G75 with a 360 casing, I'd be better off using single use. Also, if you want to do multiple launches during a day you don't have to clean out the casing each time.
I'm thinking single use would have been better for me. If one was launching a lot of rockets using motors in the F62 to G138, then I think the 90 bucks for RMS-29/40-120 would be worth it. There's 22 different reloads availble for that motor size.
Bingo!
Did L1 on 29/180 H128. My signer/cert guy (L2) said he had no interest in seeing me assemble the motor as we had launched many dozens of MPR RMS together, and he commented that he'd never seen a failure on my part. He said build it and send it.
It didn't even shake him up when I asked about how many o-rings should be left over.
And went very well.
Hans.
Those of us old enough remember Heathkit. A friend was assembling an oscilloscope. When he wasn't looking, I added a couple extra resistors to the parts pile.For evil fun, buy packs of spare o-rings and sprinkle them liberally on folks' tables around large launches.
For evil fun, buy packs of spare o-rings and sprinkle them liberally on folks' tables around large launches.
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