Charles_McG
Ciderwright
I need a little guidance, please. Can you help me order these kits by difficulty of build and flying?
Aerotech Phoenix
Estes StratoBlaster
VectorAero Cuda
Aerotech Phoenix
Estes StratoBlaster
VectorAero Cuda
Difficulty of Classic Rocket Glider Kits.
- Thread starter Charles_McG
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I built a Stratoblaster, had to put balsa skins on the foam wings. I was in my mid 30s and did it.
I would guess it was the easiest to build but would be the least performing of the 3. It's not a full wing glider like the other two.
I would recommend RC electric experience before trying rocket boost on gliders. Ready to Fly gliders for RC are not expensive anymore to learn on.
I would guess it was the easiest to build but would be the least performing of the 3. It's not a full wing glider like the other two.
I would recommend RC electric experience before trying rocket boost on gliders. Ready to Fly gliders for RC are not expensive anymore to learn on.
Charles_McG
Ciderwright
I've got a UMX Radian, and I'm working my way through several J&H kits first. I'm working my way up, for sure.
lr64
Well-Known Member
When the weather's bad, you can mess with CRRCsim. It's free, though you will need a cable to connect your transmitter to the computer. I suspect it's possible to make a fairly accurate computer model of one of those rocket gliders to use in it, though if you were comfortable with a DLG in the simulator, that would probably translate pretty well. The UMX Radian is a nice little model, but it doesn't have the same kind of momentum. A friend has put a rocket motor in a fairly normal RC glider. It's overweight, but it still outperforms many RC rocket gliders. If you like, I can see if he's willing to give you some advice.
The following presumes that you want to catch thermals, not just have the model land near you.
I think it would probably be easier to fly something that turns with the rudder, rather than ailerons. You might have to convert one to rocket power, though*. These days, there are a bunch of model kits for F3-RES. An outfit called Hyperflight carries some of them. They only have rudder, elevator, and spoilers. They are also 2 meters, which is easier to fly, but only weigh maybe 15 ounces! The wide speed range of the airfoils would help your model go up faster, and the light weight would help it come down slower. You'd want to pick something that had flutter resistant features, like full depth spars with caps as opposed to those egregious tubes, d-tube wing sheeting for torsional rigidity, and a sufficiently stiff tail boom. I'm assuming that there is some long burning motor available that won't make the model go too fast on the way up. 100 mph?? (warning: now diverging away from kits) Probably the most flutter resistant design in this category is the Allegro Light, which I think may have started the trend. It flies very nicely, though the stall is a bit sharper than is ideal for a beginner's model. If well built, they are incredibly strong. Against air and winch loads, anyway.
https://charlesriverrc.org/articles/on-line-plans/mark-drela-designs/allegro-lite-2m/
If you were really into composites, I'd recommend the original Allegro, too.
If that's too big or challenging, a Terminator with a stiffer tailboom might be good:
https://charlesriverrc.org/articles/on-line-plans/terminatorhlg/
Just remember that it REALLY needs a stiffer tailboom. I could throw one hard enough for it to pitch down, and I'm not great at throwing. If you ran across a kit for a Top Flite Wristocrat, that would probably be comparable. Larry Jolly's Flinger was also comparable, I think, and a kit at one time. https://plans.modelaircraft.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/MB9842MB1.pdf
You probably COULD find a Dynaflite Skeeter kit, but for rocket launching you'd need to modify the wing for torsional stiffness. Plus I suspect it flies significantly better with the tip extensions I've put on mine.
Estes used to have something called the Sweet V, but I don't know anything about it except one review by a guy who doesn't fly gliders much, and didn't say how much it weighed.
There are a bunch of small kit cutters out there, and some of them probably have something suitable.
Just remember that bigger tends to be easier to fly.
If you were already a good flyer, you could probably handle Mark Drela's Apogee, which is actually very simple. That sanding trick works.
https://charlesriverrc.org/articles/on-line-plans/mark-drela-designs/apogee-hlg/
I doubt any remain on the market, but there was a very similar kit called the Apogee Sport:
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=15061
I would guess that the J&H Evo Fire would be a decent performer in the hands of someone with skills. And it's meant for launching with a rocket motor.
The following presumes that you want to catch thermals, not just have the model land near you.
I think it would probably be easier to fly something that turns with the rudder, rather than ailerons. You might have to convert one to rocket power, though*. These days, there are a bunch of model kits for F3-RES. An outfit called Hyperflight carries some of them. They only have rudder, elevator, and spoilers. They are also 2 meters, which is easier to fly, but only weigh maybe 15 ounces! The wide speed range of the airfoils would help your model go up faster, and the light weight would help it come down slower. You'd want to pick something that had flutter resistant features, like full depth spars with caps as opposed to those egregious tubes, d-tube wing sheeting for torsional rigidity, and a sufficiently stiff tail boom. I'm assuming that there is some long burning motor available that won't make the model go too fast on the way up. 100 mph?? (warning: now diverging away from kits) Probably the most flutter resistant design in this category is the Allegro Light, which I think may have started the trend. It flies very nicely, though the stall is a bit sharper than is ideal for a beginner's model. If well built, they are incredibly strong. Against air and winch loads, anyway.
https://charlesriverrc.org/articles/on-line-plans/mark-drela-designs/allegro-lite-2m/
If you were really into composites, I'd recommend the original Allegro, too.
If that's too big or challenging, a Terminator with a stiffer tailboom might be good:
https://charlesriverrc.org/articles/on-line-plans/terminatorhlg/
Just remember that it REALLY needs a stiffer tailboom. I could throw one hard enough for it to pitch down, and I'm not great at throwing. If you ran across a kit for a Top Flite Wristocrat, that would probably be comparable. Larry Jolly's Flinger was also comparable, I think, and a kit at one time. https://plans.modelaircraft.org/wp-content/uploads/pdf/MB9842MB1.pdf
You probably COULD find a Dynaflite Skeeter kit, but for rocket launching you'd need to modify the wing for torsional stiffness. Plus I suspect it flies significantly better with the tip extensions I've put on mine.
Estes used to have something called the Sweet V, but I don't know anything about it except one review by a guy who doesn't fly gliders much, and didn't say how much it weighed.
There are a bunch of small kit cutters out there, and some of them probably have something suitable.
Just remember that bigger tends to be easier to fly.
If you were already a good flyer, you could probably handle Mark Drela's Apogee, which is actually very simple. That sanding trick works.
https://charlesriverrc.org/articles/on-line-plans/mark-drela-designs/apogee-hlg/
I doubt any remain on the market, but there was a very similar kit called the Apogee Sport:
https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=15061
I would guess that the J&H Evo Fire would be a decent performer in the hands of someone with skills. And it's meant for launching with a rocket motor.
Can't comment yet want to expand your list: Tomcat!
MoreRockets sells this classic, pretty easy build.
The trick, I think, is in the last step--balance to get a flat guide. I've found I need all of the supplied clay plus a few small fishing weights in the tail.
MoreRockets sells this classic, pretty easy build.
The trick, I think, is in the last step--balance to get a flat guide. I've found I need all of the supplied clay plus a few small fishing weights in the tail.
Good Morning Charles;
Many S8 (FAI Rocket Glider classes) competitors are repurposing discus launch RC gliders for use as rocket gliders by mounting a pod atop the wing (similar to the J&H Evo Fire LR64 mentioned).
Not sure if you would be interested in doing the same sort of conversion (DLG -> rocket glider), and maybe an hour drive is too much for a 'fact finding tour', but an avid DLG pilot lives over in Cedarburg, WI. Goes by the member name "jhohensee" on RC Groups. Also flies F5J gliders ('electric winch' in the nose).
You may want to reach out to him and see if he can arrange for some buddy box time or the like, and he may have an older DLG that is in need of a new home.
My recollection of reading through a build thread here on the Stratoblaster is that one of the biggest issues had to do with the twin boom tail, and the routing the elevator control cable was designed to take. Several bends in that run meant that the linkage was not terribly free, and would result in the control surface not returning to exactly the same place when the stick was released.
All of those models you listed I believe consist of foam wing cores that you have to skin, so if you don't have a press / means to apply a lot of weight, or ideally vacuum bag, that is an aspect to consider...
Many S8 (FAI Rocket Glider classes) competitors are repurposing discus launch RC gliders for use as rocket gliders by mounting a pod atop the wing (similar to the J&H Evo Fire LR64 mentioned).
Not sure if you would be interested in doing the same sort of conversion (DLG -> rocket glider), and maybe an hour drive is too much for a 'fact finding tour', but an avid DLG pilot lives over in Cedarburg, WI. Goes by the member name "jhohensee" on RC Groups. Also flies F5J gliders ('electric winch' in the nose).
You may want to reach out to him and see if he can arrange for some buddy box time or the like, and he may have an older DLG that is in need of a new home.
My recollection of reading through a build thread here on the Stratoblaster is that one of the biggest issues had to do with the twin boom tail, and the routing the elevator control cable was designed to take. Several bends in that run meant that the linkage was not terribly free, and would result in the control surface not returning to exactly the same place when the stick was released.
All of those models you listed I believe consist of foam wing cores that you have to skin, so if you don't have a press / means to apply a lot of weight, or ideally vacuum bag, that is an aspect to consider...
kjohnson
mox nix
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None of them are particularly hard- if you have built an RC plane before.
I would say the Phoenix probably is the most straightforward- no multiple dihedral breaks, traditional planform, well engineered kit. There were 2 versions, the original AT release and a revised version by Sky King(?) that updated some materials.
The StratoBlaster has the added complexity of the tailbooms so alignment and routing the controls are more difficult. There were 2 versions of this as well, the full kit and an ARF version.
The Cuda is a high performance kit and has the most effort to build. It was designed for older heavier gear, so you will have to make the most adjustments during your build to keep it light and the CG in the right place.
kj
I would say the Phoenix probably is the most straightforward- no multiple dihedral breaks, traditional planform, well engineered kit. There were 2 versions, the original AT release and a revised version by Sky King(?) that updated some materials.
The StratoBlaster has the added complexity of the tailbooms so alignment and routing the controls are more difficult. There were 2 versions of this as well, the full kit and an ARF version.
The Cuda is a high performance kit and has the most effort to build. It was designed for older heavier gear, so you will have to make the most adjustments during your build to keep it light and the CG in the right place.
kj
mikec
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I built a Cuda. The balsa skinning is a PITA but relatively straightforward. In my hands, the performance was nothing special.
I lost the Cuda in a crash and replaced it with an Art-Hobby Zuni that comes with pre-skinned wings, but I have yet to do the conversion.
I lost the Cuda in a crash and replaced it with an Art-Hobby Zuni that comes with pre-skinned wings, but I have yet to do the conversion.
Charles_McG
Ciderwright
Thank you all for suggestions and specific model and person name dropping. I think it's good reference material to have and to ponder.
To reiterate - I'm not starting with these kits. I'm starting smaller/cheaper/easier and working my way up. But I have (or will) all three in the OP, so kj's response was exactly what I was looking for.
mikec
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I should add that flying it was not exceptionally difficult, but my aging eyesight made it pretty hard to maintain orientation at the altitude an E6 would take it to. And the inverted V tail made landing on some surfaces tricky, I broke the tail off a couple of times.
It may be difficult to get some of the RC reloads from Aerotech as they are not in continuous production, especially the smaller 24mm and all of the 32mm reloads.
I've never heard anyone rave about the performance of the Stratoblaster, but I have no experience.
I had the Estes AstroBlaster, which is different than the StratoBlaster, years ago. Balsa skinning the foam wings was not that hard, but overall building the model took a long time.
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In terms of flying, the Phoenix is probably the most neutral, a highly aerobatic plane, I would try to fly that last, especially with the higher thrust motors.
The Stratoblaster is fairly neutral but the twin booms are a weak spot and as was mentioned pushrod flex/slop is an issue.
In glide the Cuda is probably the easiest to fly, just watch the V tail on landing as was mentioned.
You didn't ask about other models so I won't mention them.
Frank
The Stratoblaster is fairly neutral but the twin booms are a weak spot and as was mentioned pushrod flex/slop is an issue.
In glide the Cuda is probably the easiest to fly, just watch the V tail on landing as was mentioned.
You didn't ask about other models so I won't mention them.
Frank
