My EV Experience

[AeroTech]

Any of you folks with EV's had to replace the brake pads on your EV yet? Just wondering how often that is needed. Regenerating should make the interval less... except the EV is heavier... so is it a wash?

We have never had to replace the brake pads on our EVs in over 8 years, driving a combined 300,000+ miles.

 

[rocket_troy]

We have never had to replace the brake pads on our EVs in over 8 years, driving a combined 300,000+ miles.

I had to replace both pads and discs (both worn down next to nothing) in my Volvo XC60 at 36,000 km!

Not sure that's a reflection of a heavy car + non EV + heavy traffic, or that of my driving style

TP

 

[jqavins]

I've owned cars with knobs, buttons and so forth and I could operate the radio and the heater without taking my eyes off of the road. I don't like touchscreens because they take too long to operate- you have to find the menu item, push it, wait for it to respond, etc. In my car I could reach out with my eyes closed, find the knob that controlled heater fan speed, and turn it.

Yes, this. A thousand times, this. The heater fan control, temperature control, the radio buttons, and more. Give me back my knobs and buttons!

 

[Tyeeking]

My Ford F-250 has both knobs and a touch screen for things like climate control, music, phone and navigation. As a driver I prefer the knobs since I don’t have to take my eyes off the road. As a passenger my wife prefers the touch screen. Having both makes a lot of sense.

 

[cwbullet]

Thanks for the review. I have been contemplating an EV. You just wrote one model off my list. I am 6’3” 240 and I am sure I would have trouble sitting in the vehicle!

 

[jderimig]

My Ford F-250 has both knobs and a touch screen for things like climate control, music, phone and navigation. As a driver I prefer the knobs since I don’t have to take my eyes off the road. As a passenger my wife prefers the touch screen. Having both makes a lot of sense.

Touch screens are a cost saving feature for the manufacturers. In our new truck we can do almost all the console controls with driving wheel controls and voice recognition, except climate control it seems. Ram 1500 rocks.

 

[Raythain]

Yes, this. A thousand times, this. The heater fan control, temperature control, the radio buttons, and more. Give me back my knobs and buttons!

Seconded. If I need to take my eyes off the road to find a control the second time, someone has failed at their job.

And don’t even get me started about using sound effects to tell me I hit a soft button

 

[Simon Auty]

Any of you folks with EV's had to replace the brake pads on your EV yet? Just wondering how often that is needed. Regenerating should make the interval less... except the EV is heavier... so is it a wash?

Not often was the quote I got from Tesla.
They will look at them in 2 years when it comes up for its first scheduled service, but they don’t often need to replace them then

 

[Simon Auty]

I don't feel up to reading 2000+ posts in this thread to see if my thoughts would be better there, so please forgive me if they would.

Last weekend, I rented a Tesla 3 for a trip to Union Beach, NJ (600 miles or so round trip). We intended to rent a car, and were surprised to find that Hertz's best price for the weekend was for the Tesla ($80/day base rate but $270+ all in for the weekend). So I thought I'd share my experience.

First, please do not think that I think I'm talking about EVs in general. Tesla is not the only maker, and the Model 3 is not their only model. I know.

It's small. Too damn small for me. Yes, I'm obese which has a lot to do with it. I'm also on the short end of normal height, and oddly proportioned with short legs and a tall torso. I found the car a little uncomfortable sitting in the driver's seat and very uncomfortable getting into and out of. If I get an EV, which I hope and expect to do, it will not be a Model 3.

Range: we had to stop to charge up once on the way down and twice on the way back, not counting the top off before returning it. In my Ford Escape, we would have filled up when we left and only once during the round trip. The charging stops take the better part of an hour, though we did manage to combine two of the three with meal stops. (On the other hand, when filling up takes five minutes I often don't make a meal stop except to hit up a drive through.) The range on EVs in general is ever improving, but if anyone tells you it's just not an issue anymore, don't you believe it.

Driving experience: The first thing you notice, after figuring out how to start going, is that this car doesn't coast. If you take your foot off the accelerator it starts braking, and not just a little. To slow down slowly you have to feather off the accelerator. There's a good reason it's made that way - coasting your speed down doesn't allow for regeneration - but it takes a good deal of getting used to. You do get used to it. The next thing to get used to would be feathering off less, learning to brake later and faster than you might be used to in order to increase regeneration and extend the range.

The second thing you'll notice is that it's just a car. Push the right pedal it goes, push the left pedal it stops, rotate the steering wheel and it turns. After getting used to the accelerator behavior, you just drive it.

The third thing is that there are too few controls. Placing this feature, and that feature, and then the next one, and the next one all on that touch screen might seem cool, but it means taking your eyes off the road further and longer than I want to, further and longer than I do in my Escape, and even the Escape makes me look at the screen more than I'd like. I feel like I need a copilot in order to drive safely while changing the radio station. I expect that's the same on all of the Tesla models, but I don't know about any other company's EVs.

The side mirrors are too small. The left side mirror especially leaves a HUGE blind spot that nearly got me into side swipes twice. There are three camera views - one straight back and two side-back - which give a much better view, and there's even a schematic view of you're surroundings forward and back in your lane and one lane to each side. Well, great, but just like so many of the controls I have to take my eyes off the road by too much and for too long in order to use them.

Enough complaining. That famous acceleration is not only fun, but occasionally useful for merges and entering roadways. Finally (and again) it's a car; it stops and goes, it gets you from here to there, and you probably already know how to drive it. I want one, but make mine the next bigger model up, or a different make with more traditional controls.

I get you about the size that’s why I got a Model Y
Essentially I (and the wife) found the 3 too low

This is not true for my 2023 Model Y. It is true for my wife’s 2022 Chevy Bolt.

The Tesla does a lot of things differently, but the Chevy looks and operates like an ICE car, so the Bolt is a much easier transition.

I love my Tesla, and my wife loves her Bolt.

My new (Shanghai built) Model Y the one pedal driving is programmable

 

[Simon Auty]

Seconded. If I need to take my eyes off the road to find a control the second time, someone has failed at their job.

And don’t even get me started about using sound effects to tell me I hit a soft button

Shouldn’t need to take your eyes off road apart from reading the Speedo (but just set your cruise control and you won’t be speeding)
Use the left hand button on the steering wheel and tell the car what you want it to do- change the Temperature, radio station, where’s the nearest charger etc
Anything you want from the screen the voice control can do

 

[ksaves2]

Shouldn’t need to take your eyes off road apart from reading the Speedo (but just set your cruise control and you won’t be speeding)
Use the left hand button on the steering wheel and tell the car what you want it to do- change the Temperature, radio station, where’s the nearest charger etc
Anything you want from the screen the voice control can do

Ahhhhh........ Know this is an old thread but in my new 2023 SUV the speed and tach is projected on the lower windshield unobtrusively via HUD. Don't have to look down at all. Cruise control is on the steering wheel and I know where the station search button is on the radio and don't have to look.
Yeah it cost more than my first house ($45k) but I like it.

 

[cwbullet]

We have never had to replace the brake pads on our EVs in over 8 years, driving a combined 300,000+ miles.

10 year on my hybrid and none of break pads were replaced. It is not an EV phenomenon.

 

[jqavins]

Funny this thread was revived just now. My Subaru was totaled about a month ago, and we just ordered a Tesla model Y.

 

[darrenf]

10 year on my hybrid and none of break pads were replaced. It is not an EV phenomenon.

Does you hybrid not use regenerative braking? That is an EV phenomenon.

 

[BEC]

10 year on my hybrid and none of break pads were replaced. It is not an EV phenomenon.

Does you hybrid not use regenerative braking? That is an EV phenomenon.

Indeed. Now that we have a hybrid (Maverick) I see that regenerative braking seems to be a main mode of charging the high-voltage battery.

I expect the brake pads will indeed last a long time, but not as long as those in our Kia Soul EV will.

 

[cerving]

Light cars, especially with 4W disk brakes, don't eat brakes. I just replaced them on my Hyundai Accent... at 115K. OTOH, I had a 2005 Chevy Malibu (horrible car... glad it was totaled) that chewed up pads every 10K. I had the "lifetime" pads at Midas... and they couldn't understand why I came in every six months with worn front pads. Front-heavy car... crappy brakes.

 

[rharshberger]

Light cars, especially with 4W disk brakes, don't eat brakes. I just replaced them on my Hyundai Accent... at 115K. OTOH, I had a 2005 Chevy Malibu (horrible car... glad it was totaled) that chewed up pads every 10K. I had the "lifetime" pads at Midas... and they couldn't understand why I came in every six months with worn front pads. Front-heavy car... crappy brakes.

Same experience here, even the heavier pickups like my F250 at get about 70k miles on good quality pads (not the cheapest house branded autoparts place pads) and with new discs or turned discs at each change. My 2000 GMC Sonomo Hi-Rider (ZR2) had two brake pad changes in the 130k miles I drove it. 4 wheel discs last much better and longer it seems than disc drum setups due to the fact the disc brakes on a disc drum vehicle have to work harder than the ones on an all disc brake vehicle. My wifes Chrysler Mini vans have gotten over 50k out of each set of pads. I can do a brake job on most of my vehicles in under two hours unless it requires rebuilding cylinders or flushing the system which I do periodically.

EVs by the fact they use resistance braking SHOULD have very little pad wear.

 

[jqavins]

Does you hybrid not use regenerative braking? That is an EV phenomenon.

We had a Prius many years ago now that used regenerative braking. Regenerative braking is key to all EV and semi-EV setups alike.

 

[dr wogz]

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montrea...ure-on-his-tesla-caused-an-accident-1.6873830

 

[darrenf]

We had a Prius many years ago now that used regenerative braking. Regenerative braking is key to all EV and semi-EV setups alike.

Sorry, it was a rhetorical question.

 

[darrenf]

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montrea...ure-on-his-tesla-caused-an-accident-1.6873830

From the article...

Ghazzoul said that while he is relieved no one got hurt, he's now left to pay for the damages himself so that his insurance premiums don't go up. He says he feels disappointed with Tesla.

"There's no information on where to use it and where not to use it," he said.

What's worse for Ghazzoul is that he has since discovered that it wasn't even legal for him to use this driverless feature in public spaces in Quebec.

Yeah, if only Tesla had like a manual or something that said this....

 

[dr wogz]

yeah, well:

How many actually read the user's manual cover-to-cover?
How many remember every detail in the manuals they read?
How many feel if a feature is available, it should work as intended..

 

[loopy]

yeah, well:

How many actually read the user's manual cover-to-cover?
How many remember every detail in the manuals they read?
How many feel if a feature is available, it should work as intended..

Without reading the manual, how do you know if it's working as intended or not? Personally, if I'm going to let my car drive itself, I'm reading everything I can about that feature and its limitations before I turn that control over.

 

[dr wogz]

Without reading the manual, how do you know if it's working as intended or not? Personally, if I'm going to let my car drive itself, I'm reading everything I can about that feature and its limitations before I turn that control over.

but you're likely a smart man, who's either dealt with similar, or is aware of limitations (is cautious)

This guy likely just believed, that since it is available, it'll work as intended.. And, since he's in Quebec, why is it then offered? Why isn't the feature disabled, since the car knows where you are, and where the car is.... You'd think the programmers would put that in..

 

[loopy]

but you're likely a smart man, who's either dealt with similar, or is aware of limitations (is cautious)

This guy likely just believed, that since it is available, it'll work as intended.. And, since he's in Quebec, why is it then offered? Why isn't the feature disabled, since the car knows where you are, and where the car is.... You'd think the programmers would put that in..

The programmers would only put it in if the BA wrote a ticket for it...the BA would only write a ticket for it if it were presented in the requirements...lol (yeah...I started off as a developer, and now work primarily as a BA/project manager).

Beyond that, why do we allow cars to exceed the speed limit? The car has GPS, and knows the speed limit of every road you drive on, so why allow it to exceed those?

There is risk in any product, which is why there are always CYA type disclaimers in any manual along the lines of "use of this product in any manner other than that intended by the manufacturer as outlined in the documentation is the sole responsibility of the user". As we say in software - development is a race between developers to create bigger and better more idiot-proof software, and the universe to build bigger and better idiots...so far, the universe is winning.

 

[jqavins]

I think the universe is not so much winning as keeping up. No matter how fast the developers (or any other engineers and product designers) go, the universe always managers to JUST keep up.

 

[dr wogz]

The programmers would only put it in if the BA wrote a ticket for it...the BA would only write a ticket for it if it were presented in the requirements...lol (yeah...I started off as a developer, and now work primarily as a BA/project manager).

Beyond that, why do we allow cars to exceed the speed limit? The car has GPS, and knows the speed limit of every road you drive on, so why allow it to exceed those?

There is risk in any product, which is why there are always CYA type disclaimers in any manual along the lines of "use of this product in any manner other than that intended by the manufacturer as outlined in the documentation is the sole responsibility of the user". As we say in software - development is a race between developers to create bigger and better more idiot-proof software, and the universe to build bigger and better idiots...so far, the universe is winning.

was thinking about this last night..

first off: what is a 'BA'? bachelor of Arts?!

The way Loopy describes it, the Project manager / design team didn't think about this, and the programmer just 'did what he was told'. So, no one seemed to have the forethought that this might be an issue...

Also, (and as mentioned) if a feature is available, and is being offered, it should work as intended. And in this particular case, you'd think this is the prime reason for it.. for the car to come pick you up from a parked location.. Such as a mall parking lot! You'd think they've tested it, and done a variety of tests, not just one controlled (and easily passable) test..

 

[Donnager]

was thinking about this last night..

first off: what is a 'BA'? bachelor of Arts?!

The way Loopy describes it, the Project manager / design team didn't think about this, and the programmer just 'did what he was told'. So, no one seemed to have the forethought that this might be an issue...

Also, (and as mentioned) if a feature is available, and is being offered, it should work as intended. And in this particular case, you'd think this is the prime reason for it.. for the car to come pick you up from a parked location.. Such as a mall parking lot! You'd think they've tested it, and done a variety of tests, not just one controlled (and easily passable) test..

I guess that is what asterisks are for.

 

[jqavins]

was thinking about this last night..

first off: what is a 'BA'? bachelor of Arts?!

The way Loopy describes it, the Project manager / design team didn't think about this, and the programmer just 'did what he was told'. So, no one seemed to have the forethought that this might be an issue...

Also, (and as mentioned) if a feature is available, and is being offered, it should work as intended. And in this particular case, you'd think this is the prime reason for it.. for the car to come pick you up from a parked location.. Such as a mall parking lot! You'd think they've tested it, and done a variety of tests, not just one controlled (and easily passable) test..

You're both right. A code monkey might just do what s/he's told, but a software engineer and a system design engineer are responsible for creating a safe product no matter what the spec says.

And, above the engineers, a company bears responsibility if it oversells and overpromises by, for instance, implying that a product can (safely) do things it can't.

On the other hand, the consumer also bears responsibility if s/he does not use a feature as instructed, but instead uses it as the feature's name alone makes it sound as if it ought to work. RTFM. Sure, very few people ever read a new car's manual all the way through, because we know the important things, because the technology is mature. But any sort of self driving is not mature technology, and a consumer is responsible for knowing that and taking due care. I bet there were a fair few accidents due to misuse of cruise control back when that was a new thing.

 

[loopy]

was thinking about this last night..

first off: what is a 'BA'? bachelor of Arts?!

The way Loopy describes it, the Project manager / design team didn't think about this, and the programmer just 'did what he was told'. So, no one seemed to have the forethought that this might be an issue...

Also, (and as mentioned) if a feature is available, and is being offered, it should work as intended. And in this particular case, you'd think this is the prime reason for it.. for the car to come pick you up from a parked location.. Such as a mall parking lot! You'd think they've tested it, and done a variety of tests, not just one controlled (and easily passable) test..

BA is Business Analyst. And yes - developers "do what they are told" when they are assigned a ticket. Changes to one portion of a system have a way of impacting seemingly completely unrelated things in other areas of the system whether through shared functions or changes in how data is stored/handled. Basically, the BA makes sure that the changes being made aren't going to step on each other, especially when you have large teams of developers working on the same code base. So, if the dev does something different than what's in the ticket, it can have some very negative impacts on the system as a whole.

Also, (and as mentioned) there is always going to be some onus on the user to be aware of what the features ACTUALLY do as opposed to what they FEEL they should do based on names. There is also some onus on the end user to be aware of regulations in certain geographical locations. We don't blame the vehicle for allowing the driver to go 37MPH in a 25MPH zone, nor do we blame the vehicle when the speed limit changes but the vehicle speed does not. Why do we blame the vehicle for a user not being aware of how the vehicle works? We always make jokes about warning labels, but this is the precise reason they exist.