NTP2
Well-Known Member
What you want me to lose my savings? Or do you want to be stupid?
L2 Kit Recommendation
- Thread starter jqavins
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My advice - as someone who would never, ever stoop to making a bad pun - is whatever you decide on, don't do it half-heartedly.
mtnmanak
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Completely understandable and I wholeheartedly recommend LOC's offerings - I have probably 20+ LOC rockets and they make great products. You will have a great experience with their kits!
For anyone reading this thread that is interested in an FG kit for Level 2 cert, I would point out that Apogee's price for the Level 2 kit is actually pretty competitive for a (almost) turn-key 4", dual-deploy, fully FG rocket. If you compare it to, say, a Wildman 4", it is pretty much on par with what you would spend to gather all the parts included with the kit. I am not shilling for Apogee (I don't actually buy much from them - their prices are usually not competitive and their shipping costs are insanely high), but, in this case, they did produce a good and competitive product.
Good luck on your cert - I will be running the BFR range during LDRS - come out to the Oasis and show off your rocket if you get the chance!
So, you're saying I shouldn't use the custom fins.[W]hatever you decide on, don't do it half-heartedly.
UPDATE: I just pulled the trigger on a LOC 4" IRIS, screw-on motor retainer (and some fiberglass cloth and plywood for different purposes) and two day shipping. I still haven't decided about the fins.
Thanks all for the help.
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Capt. Eric
Well-Known Member
Probably too late, but...
I just flew for my L2 last weekend. I used a Madcow 4" Frenzy. I did it with duel deploy (using a LOC AV bay), but you can very much keep it simple and not do that. It's really 3 pairs of fins, but depending on how long your hearts are, that can still work for you. Doing 3 fins saves you a little time and work, and weight too. It could be a simple build for you if the fins can work in those double slots.
BTW, my wife got me the kit for my birthday from eRockets. They are great, and usually fast.
I just flew for my L2 last weekend. I used a Madcow 4" Frenzy. I did it with duel deploy (using a LOC AV bay), but you can very much keep it simple and not do that. It's really 3 pairs of fins, but depending on how long your hearts are, that can still work for you. Doing 3 fins saves you a little time and work, and weight too. It could be a simple build for you if the fins can work in those double slots.
BTW, my wife got me the kit for my birthday from eRockets. They are great, and usually fast.
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Yes, too late. Thanks all the same. Nice rocket, and congratulation on the cert.
Capt. Eric
Well-Known Member
Thanks. Good luck with yours. The Iris should work for you. I'll keep an eye out at LDRS.
You don't need fiberglass rockets or fins for an L2 cert if you chose your motor's power correctly*. Your L2 should be the start of your L2 journey, not the pinnacle of it.
*Don't be using a K1100 , or it's J little brother for example, and don't use fins you would need to fiberglass.
*Don't be using a K1100 , or it's J little brother for example, and don't use fins you would need to fiberglass.
If you've got the experience with dual deploy, are confident in your construction techniques, and perhaps simply don't ascribe to the 'low and slow' mindset, why not go 'full send' for your L2? See https://www.rocketryforum.com/threa...4-x-rated-phenolic.179157/page-2#post-2580584 for an example.
In my past as an Advisor and past L3CC I would not recommend L motors for an L2 Cert. The jump from an I motor to even a K motor is huge and experience with them is best before you do the L motor.
I used the Estes ABC, then Mighty D even on my L3 cert rocket.
Indeed. I've chosen three motors, so I have options depending on availability, with low to mid J impulse, and middling average thrust for that impulse range but a decent initial thrust (that is, not progressive burn). I don't have the list here at work. I'll be siming the rocket with all three motors and will have the sim results with me.
The only reason I've been talking about fiberglass for this rocket is if I use my half-heart fins. They're 1/8 thick and surface mount, so I'd glass them and their fillets just to be on the safe side. The glass I added to this order is mainly for a different rocket, and ordering it now saves on shipping. (Plus I'd like to fly that one at NYPOWER, which is even sooner than LDRS, but that one is mostly built.) The plywood on this order is to make a special fly-away rail guide for Слава Україні, also in time for NYPOWER.
Oh, hell no. I don't have dual deploy experience, so I won't be using it. I'm confident in by building techniques, up to a point; a point that's sufficient for this if I don't push the limits. And even if I were very experienced with dual deploy, and totally expert in all aspects of construction, I wouldn't go "full send" of a cert flight.
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i made this mistake with not ordering motors in time for a launch weekend. now i make arrangements in advance, and LDRS to have motors there.
i'll be going for my L2 at LDRS 42 with my 4" Nike Zeus which is ready to be finished (building completed), and i've been going through the test Q's.
r-
loopy
Well-Known Member
When I got my L1 many moons ago, I had a plan set in my head on what I wanted to do for my other two certs if they ever happened. Over the years, I learned that for certifications, it seems best to go the simplest route possible for the actual certification flight in order to help keep your stress levels down, then once you have the cert, you can have fun with the other stuff you want to do. Just my $0.02.
I'm also going to order a motor for on field pickup. Good luck with yours.
-Slick-Ice
Well-Known Member
The 4" IRIS is a great kit for the L2 without fiberglass. If you ever plan on using it for dual deploy I would attach the coupler to the payload section with screws or rivets. That way you can just swap out the coupler/bulkhead with the electronics bay.
Dual deploy will probably wait until I fix and finish the EZI-65 that I partially messed up in my inexperience some years ago. For a long time, I thought that I would eventually finish that and use it for my L2 cert flight, but recently decided to go with something simpler.
Oh how I miss being able to drive the 6-1/2 hour trip to NyPower. That is where I got my 2003 L2 NAR cert on my first visit there and meeting new friends. Last visit was NSL 2018 and that was a Real Blast as well. Was out retrieving my I-Roc in the field just as the Super-Duper N motor rocket [I think it was a Big Bertha] took off.
My friend who rode with me had not launched rockets since a teen, was totally in shock feeling the N motor really close by and seeing the Red Streak of the flame of the motor. Like a Laser Beam.
I miss all the people I would see every year there.
I really would not use surface mount fins on an L2 cert even with glass, really I would not. I could also add Just Sayin' but then folks in the "term you can't stand" thread will get even more upset at me
What stops you?
MARS (hosts of NYPOWER) is my home club. This year's LDRS is even closer to my abode.
I had thought about mentioning that just a few minutes ago. The added weight of the motor cases could be an issue on landing.
What stops you?
MARS (hosts of NYPOWER) is my home club. This year's LDRS is even closer to my abode.
Health reasons. First back issues and surgery prevented any drives longer then about 20-40 mins. Now I have something else added that is preventing me from driving long. I have a friend taking me to our next local launch he goes to, about 53mins away with JMRC.
I don't understand. When LOC does their design of a rocket, and picks the appropriate parachute size, wouldn't that be based on the maximum expected descent mass, including the empty case? And, one would assume that the empty case weight to be a quite small fraction of the whole anyway, would one not?
Good call on the Iris! Did my L2 on an Iris with a J350 and it was a great visible flight. Have flown it several times since on several I's a few J's and even a couple K's. It's a versatile rocket and capable of more than you would think being made from cardboard tubing.So, you're saying I shouldn't use the custom fins.
UPDATE: I just pulled the trigger on a LOC 4" IRIS, screw-on motor retainer (and some fiberglass cloth and plywood for different purposes) and two day shipping. I still haven't decided about the fins.
Thanks all for the help.
The chute is based on the finished kit weight. Build weight will vary depending on build techniques. Motor weight varies significantly, so a need for a larger chute is not uncommon.
True, you always need to make sure the chute is appropriate for you over engineered bird.
-Slick-Ice
Well-Known Member
The 50" parachute that comes with the 4" IRIS is plenty especially if it is only motor deploy.
It may also need a different size based on the landing terrain (soft field vs rocky field) and wind conditions. I upgraded my Mega Initiator to a 42" chute to guarantee a softer landing on the swept fins, not knowing what the field conditions were like at a new field.
The build will either be stock or nearly so, as I'm not glassing the tube, and glassing the custom fins is only to reinforce the underweight plywood, and the payload will be trivial, a JLCR and an Eggtimer GPS tracker. I won't be doing any overengineering, just building as directed except maybe those fins. The field is grass. I'm really not worried. If I'm wrong, well, I guess I'll find out and try again another day.
All too often, it's overthinking that leads to overengineering.
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I loved my scratch 4-inch Iris @jqavins !
It was made from LOC cardboard tubes , a very light Ace nose cone and a 54 mm motor mount and weighed 3,400 grams dry.
I flew it a lot -- until I landed drogue-only on a rock pile at a 1990-something Turkey Shoot and snapped off the lower corner of a fin.
Blush
LOC says their Iris weighs 5.5 lbs which seems a little light but maybe that's just me and mine with an Av-Bay and TTW fins with the 12 filets I applied ?
As for nose weight -- mine didn't need any, even with 1/4 inch thru the wall fins flying RMS 54/1706 motors.
There are a few good J-Motors for your level 2 -- like maybe the AT DMS J435WS ... or ... if you have access to AT RMS 54/852 motor hardware, an AT J460T looks good too !
Either motor would have pushed my old Iris safely off the rail up to around 3,000 -to- 3,500 ft.
Or, if you make a 54-to-38 mm adapter, an AT RMS 38/720 J350W looks pretty good too for an easy flight to 2750 ft ot so.
YMWV
HTH and Good Luck Joe !
-- kjh
P.S. My trusty old Iris is up in my 'rocket loft' waiting for a new fin ... maybe someday ...
This is an old RASP-SUM listing from 1998 for a few motors I might fly in my old Iris:
EDIT: I could not keep my columns aligned, even with \<code\> tags and-or Courier new.
Here is a pic, instead:
Shucks, no colors here ...
It was made from LOC cardboard tubes , a very light Ace nose cone and a 54 mm motor mount and weighed 3,400 grams dry.
I flew it a lot -- until I landed drogue-only on a rock pile at a 1990-something Turkey Shoot and snapped off the lower corner of a fin.
Blush
LOC says their Iris weighs 5.5 lbs which seems a little light but maybe that's just me and mine with an Av-Bay and TTW fins with the 12 filets I applied ?
As for nose weight -- mine didn't need any, even with 1/4 inch thru the wall fins flying RMS 54/1706 motors.
There are a few good J-Motors for your level 2 -- like maybe the AT DMS J435WS ... or ... if you have access to AT RMS 54/852 motor hardware, an AT J460T looks good too !
Either motor would have pushed my old Iris safely off the rail up to around 3,000 -to- 3,500 ft.
Or, if you make a 54-to-38 mm adapter, an AT RMS 38/720 J350W looks pretty good too for an easy flight to 2750 ft ot so.
YMWV
HTH and Good Luck Joe !
-- kjh
P.S. My trusty old Iris is up in my 'rocket loft' waiting for a new fin ... maybe someday ...
This is an old RASP-SUM listing from 1998 for a few motors I might fly in my old Iris:
EDIT: I could not keep my columns aligned, even with \<code\> tags and-or Courier new.
Here is a pic, instead:
Shucks, no colors here ...
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loopy
Well-Known Member
J500 is a fabulous 38mm motor, and what I used for my L2. Fabulous green flame on that thing.I loved my scratch 4-inch Iris @jqavins !
It was made from LOC cardboard tubes , a very light Ace nose cone and a 54 mm motor mount and weighed 3,400 grams dry.
I flew it a lot -- until I landed drogue-only on a rock pile at a 1990-something Turkey Shoot and snapped off the lower corner of a fin.
Blush
LOC says their Iris weighs 5.5 lbs which seems a little light but maybe that's just me and mine with an Av-Bay and TTW fins with the 12 filets I applied ?
As for nose weight -- mine didn't need any, even with 1/4 inch thru the wall fins flying RMS 54/1706 motors.
There are a few good J-Motors for your level 2 -- like maybe the AT DMS J435WS ... or ... if you have access to AT RMS 54/852 motor hardware, an AT J460T looks good too !
Either motor would have pushed my old Iris safely off the rail up to around 3,000 -to- 3,500 ft.
Or, if you make a 54-to-38 mm adapter, an AT RMS 38/720 J350W looks pretty good too for an easy flight to 2750 ft ot so.
YMWV
HTH and Good Luck Joe !
-- kjh
P.S. My trusty old Iris is up in my 'rocket loft' waiting for a new fin ... maybe someday ...
This is an old RASP-SUM listing from 1998 for a few motors I might fly in my old Iris:
EDIT: I could not keep my columns aligned, even with \<code\> tags and-or Courier new.
Here is a pic, instead:
View attachment 645423
Shucks, no colors here ...
Yes !
That motor didn't exist back when I had my Iris but an AT RMS 38/720 J500G should fly a just little higher and quicker than the J350W in a 4-inch Iris.
And I REALLY want to fly one in my 1.9 inch "T'Pring's P'Toy" when I've got the right site and weather ( 170 ft/sec off an 8-ft rail, Mach 1.37 near burnout and 7,500 ft apogee )...
-- kjh (
whee ))
