crumbly Estes motors

[lr64]

I just took down my rocket box from the garage. It has a number of old Estes rocket motors in it. One package of A motors* has a few little crumbly bits in it, which I'm guessing came from the nozzles. Does this mean the motors are no good? I was thinking that, at least if I built something for them, I would just use a longer wire, set up further from the launch point, and try them. Or perhaps put some epoxy on the lower face (i.e. visible) of the nozzle to hold it together. The motors have been stored in a place which is occasionally quite humid, but the other motors stored with them don't have the same problem. OTOH, there is a TRACE of mildew on the package which is not seen in the others. All of the motors are now in sealed bags with dessicant packets. This was not much of an investment, but I don't like wasting things if I don't have to, and I'm guessing I'm not the only one who's seen this.

Thanks

*1/2A3-4T , also marked with A022301

 

[SolarYellow]

Maybe you can still find a Hobby Lobby near you with some 220 Swift kits at $2.74 each. Minimum-effort build and let 'em rip.

 

[kuririn]

One package of A motors* has a few little crumbly bits in it, which I'm guessing came from the nozzles

Also take a look at the clay cap on the ejection charges.
Might be from that.
I've used motors with crumbly ejection charge caps and they flew fine.
You can launch a motor from the pack in a rocket that you don't mind being destroyed, or you can do a static ground test to see how the motor performs.
If it works OK then send the others in the pack up.
Good luck.

 

[lr64]

Maybe you can still find a Hobby Lobby near you with some 220 Swift kits at $2.74 each. Minimum-effort build and let 'em rip.

I'm not sure I have the eyes for a little rocket like that, or ever did. I built something like that many years ago, and never saw it again after liftoff. Not even in the air! Does the Swift just spit out the engine to make it light enough for safe recovery? It DOES look like fun, if someone had eyes like Chuck Yaeger's were supposed to be. Maybe with an adapter for an MM?

I looked, and there IS a Hobby Lobby near me. However, I wonder if I couldn't make up a kit of parts for one of these in about the time it would take to drive there and back plus shop. (1.5 hours, maybe?). The nose cone would be the only real challenge, and I've done those before. OTOH, the eye transplant would be really tough. ;-)

Also take a look at the clay cap on the ejection charges.
Might be from that.
I've used motors with crumbly ejection charge caps and they flew fine.
You can launch a motor from the pack in a rocket that you don't mind being destroyed, or you can do a static ground test to see how the motor performs.
If it works OK then send the others in the pack up.
Good luck.

Thanks. As it happens, the crumblies all seem to be near the nozzles. Would blowing out a nozzle even destroy the rocket?

 

[kuririn]

Would blowing out a nozzle even destroy the rocket?

Maybe not for an A motor.
I've had E motor nozzle blowouts that destroyed my launch pad though.

 

[cerving]

Estes had some problems with crumbly nozzles awhile back. Inspect them carefully... if the nozzle looks intact, the clay is probably from the ejection side, and shouldn't be a big deal. A pinch of dog barf over the top with a little masking tape will fix that.

 

[lakeroadster]

I just took down my rocket box from the garage.....

Hmm. Might want to start storing the motors someplace other than "in the garage", unless the garage is climate controlled. Moisture and thermal cycling aren't conducive to long term BP motor storage.​

 

[Capt. Eric]

I have a Swift 220 that I fly often at demo's. The 1/2A's aren't as hard to follow as a full A. 1/4A's even easier. But I also have added a piece of plastic streamer to the end of each fin. 3-4" long x 1/4-1/2" wide is plenty. Glue it with anything that doesn't melt the plastic. Keep it going straight down, not angled with the fins. This will slow the rocket down, give you more to see, and helps find it on the ground.

 

[lr64]

Hmm. Might want to start storing the motors someplace other than "in the garage", unless the garage is climate controlled. Moisture and thermal cycling aren't conducive to long term BP motor storage.​

I've taken care of the humidity problem, but I'm not sure I want black powder in the house. Maybe I should think about which part of the garage has the steadiest temperature.

 

[the random rocketer]

Try a few Art Applewhite saucers or qbits all you'll risk is some card stock.

 

[cwbullet]

Try a few Art Applewhite saucers or qbits all you'll risk is some card stock.

Great idea or a 3d printed saucer.

 

[lr64]

Great idea or a 3d printed saucer.

Thanks, but that kind of stuff gives me no thrill. I'm more of a glider guy. Or maybe some nostalgia trip. Or something interesting from an engineering point of view.

 

[cwbullet]

Thanks, but that kind of stuff gives me no thrill. I'm more of a glider guy. Or maybe some nostalgia trip. Or something interesting from an engineering point of view.

Build what you can afford to blow up. Saucers take minimal time and effort.

 

[lakeroadster]

I've taken care of the humidity problem, but I'm not sure I want black powder in the house. Maybe I should think about which part of the garage has the steadiest temperature.

Ammo boxes, the old school steel one's are a good choice.​

 

[cwbullet]

Ammo boxes, the old school steel one's are a good choice.​

And they come in many sizes:

 

[BABAR]

Thanks, but that kind of stuff gives me no thrill. I'm more of a glider guy. Or maybe some nostalgia trip. Or something interesting from an engineering point of view.

These would work well for sustainer motors on a 2 stage.

If they function correctly, all good.

If it CATOs, still will probably just blow out both ends and still deploy a streamer. So still good.

 

[Paul Howard]

I store All my motors in groups of similar sizes in freezer ziplock bags in a Closet In the House where the humidity and temparature stay more consistent. Black Powder stored that way is not going to be a problem - I've not heard of spontaneous combustion of Black Powder or Composites (but I would like to know if that actually happens or has happened with rocket motors).

Well cared for Black Powder and Composite motors already CATO and keeping motors in fluctuating temp and humidity (garages, attics, sheds, etc) is just inviting more CATO's or other problems.

Rocket motors CATO only once they are ignited, again, I've never heard of one CATO'ing while in "Good" storage conditions.

Also, I'm a "Glider Guy" and speaking of that, I'm finally able time-wise to get to fixing the leading edge on my beloved Very, Very Modified Great Planes 2M Spirit Woodie that got damaged on a bad turbulent day of "tree surfing" about 5 years ago (that's what my life has been like since 2017) - I was too desperate go fly and not making that mistake again - I'm a much better builder than I am a pilot. If you're on RCGroups.com I'll hopefully soon have the latest repair posted on a very old "Build-Log" likely on the "Thermal"(?) forum if I can resurrect the thread.

I agree with others here that if you use those motors, you might want to use them in a "beater" or, make something as "CATO-resitant" as you can. The other input about ceramic ejection-cap crumbs in valid - I've done the same things. If it's your nozzle ceramic then things get more unpredictable. There's been a thread on D12-3's and suspicious nozzle ceramic which is worth reading too.

Good Luck -Paul

 

[gldknght]

I've taken care of the humidity problem, but I'm not sure I want black powder in the house. Maybe I should think about which part of the garage has the steadiest temperature.

As long as you keep bp motors well away from any flame source, you'll be fine. I keep mine in a box in a metal cabinet in the basement. There is virtually no temp cycling and a year round dehumidifier running to keep humidity low. I've kept bp motors down there for years without issues.