- Joined
- Aug 6, 2022
- Messages
- 3,430
- Reaction score
- 3,163
A couple of conversations in diverse areas of the forum led me to draft this response, but I figured it might be better to make it its own thread rather than threadjack one of those others.
------------------------
This. I'm pretty recently BARed and haven't built and flown much yet, but I'm an engineer who builds things. What's captivated me is the design/engineering and problem solving involved. It's fun in that I can let my creativity run without the actual construction costing so much it can materially impact my financial future. (That's a reality when it comes to the next four-wheeled idea I have.) On that note, I'm hesitant about L1 and pretty much not interested in L2 (yet, perhaps). The idea of turning >$100 into smoke and noise in less than three seconds still doesn't make sense to me, at least when it's my money.
With the current and upcoming generations of electronics, you can go DD with GPS tracking in a MD 24mm rocket. For example, I've put together an OR sim with an Eggfinder Mini in the nose cone and a standard mid-body split DD setup using a Quark. All in an Estes Black Brant kit that AC Supply sells for $8.99, and can be had by itself shipped for ~$17 all over the internet. You can duplicate it with a carbon fiber body tube and flat c.f. plate for fins, obtained inexpensively from a host of Chinese suppliers, if you want to play with the more powerful 24mm reloads and be robust through transonic (maybe changing to a clipped delta shape to address flutter...).
You can do a lot of cool stuff with an AT 24/40 case if you follow the physics rather than eating what the market feeds you with a spoon.
With a Raven, you can do composite air start in a 24mm BT. With the F44 SU motors, this can be a machbuster and pass 7000 feet, at least in the sim. Some problem solving necessary, but that's actually (one of) the interesting part(s) if you like building stuff.
I figure out of sight, relying on your GPS tracker to get it back, is probably similar whether it's a 1 inch BT or a 4 inch BT. I do spend time near dry lakes, so that does kinda influence my ideas about what's reasonable and likely.
If you're OK with the loss of performance on 24mm motors or the extra expense of 29mm motors, stepping up to a <$20 BT-55 kit like a Cherokee E is positively cavernous and should make everything easy. Even a Goblin is in there, although its shortness makes a mid-body split more challenging, maybe not even a good idea. But even that just points toward additional creative solutions rather than just doing "what everyone does."
In short, as someone who's captivated by the design, building and systems integration (summarizing: "creative") aspects of the hobby, there's a path to doing "all the things" as far as deployment technology, composite construction, etc., relatively inexpensively and without ever going near an L1 cert. I might jump to an L1 relatively early just because there are some things I want to do that fall into that, but if I do, the certification itself will certainly not be the point. It's even a fun aspect to work on improving performance within the box of MPR rather than just throwing more power at it to go higher/faster. I'm in many ways at my happiest and best when I'm able to be an information sponge, learning at a rapid rate, and there is a lot to learn in this hobby, readily accessible to someone motivated to soak it up, thanks to the internet.
With my creative juices going and all the ideas I have for scratch and kit bashed builds, the perspective of, "I want to get my L1/L2 cert, what kit should I buy?" is not a place I can imagine finding myself. Much more like, "Which of the many ideas flying around my head would be best suited for this?" I'm not saying anyone else is wrong, just kind of feel like I'm an oddball in a room full of oddballs (let's be honest... ).
------------------------
You can do DD on Estes kits with D motors or less. DD and HPR have traditionally been linked but you can do DD without needing HPR and you can do HPR without needing DD (until L3) Do whatcha enjoy
This. I'm pretty recently BARed and haven't built and flown much yet, but I'm an engineer who builds things. What's captivated me is the design/engineering and problem solving involved. It's fun in that I can let my creativity run without the actual construction costing so much it can materially impact my financial future. (That's a reality when it comes to the next four-wheeled idea I have.) On that note, I'm hesitant about L1 and pretty much not interested in L2 (yet, perhaps). The idea of turning >$100 into smoke and noise in less than three seconds still doesn't make sense to me, at least when it's my money.
With the current and upcoming generations of electronics, you can go DD with GPS tracking in a MD 24mm rocket. For example, I've put together an OR sim with an Eggfinder Mini in the nose cone and a standard mid-body split DD setup using a Quark. All in an Estes Black Brant kit that AC Supply sells for $8.99, and can be had by itself shipped for ~$17 all over the internet. You can duplicate it with a carbon fiber body tube and flat c.f. plate for fins, obtained inexpensively from a host of Chinese suppliers, if you want to play with the more powerful 24mm reloads and be robust through transonic (maybe changing to a clipped delta shape to address flutter...).
You can do a lot of cool stuff with an AT 24/40 case if you follow the physics rather than eating what the market feeds you with a spoon.
With a Raven, you can do composite air start in a 24mm BT. With the F44 SU motors, this can be a machbuster and pass 7000 feet, at least in the sim. Some problem solving necessary, but that's actually (one of) the interesting part(s) if you like building stuff.
I figure out of sight, relying on your GPS tracker to get it back, is probably similar whether it's a 1 inch BT or a 4 inch BT. I do spend time near dry lakes, so that does kinda influence my ideas about what's reasonable and likely.
If you're OK with the loss of performance on 24mm motors or the extra expense of 29mm motors, stepping up to a <$20 BT-55 kit like a Cherokee E is positively cavernous and should make everything easy. Even a Goblin is in there, although its shortness makes a mid-body split more challenging, maybe not even a good idea. But even that just points toward additional creative solutions rather than just doing "what everyone does."
In short, as someone who's captivated by the design, building and systems integration (summarizing: "creative") aspects of the hobby, there's a path to doing "all the things" as far as deployment technology, composite construction, etc., relatively inexpensively and without ever going near an L1 cert. I might jump to an L1 relatively early just because there are some things I want to do that fall into that, but if I do, the certification itself will certainly not be the point. It's even a fun aspect to work on improving performance within the box of MPR rather than just throwing more power at it to go higher/faster. I'm in many ways at my happiest and best when I'm able to be an information sponge, learning at a rapid rate, and there is a lot to learn in this hobby, readily accessible to someone motivated to soak it up, thanks to the internet.
With my creative juices going and all the ideas I have for scratch and kit bashed builds, the perspective of, "I want to get my L1/L2 cert, what kit should I buy?" is not a place I can imagine finding myself. Much more like, "Which of the many ideas flying around my head would be best suited for this?" I'm not saying anyone else is wrong, just kind of feel like I'm an oddball in a room full of oddballs (let's be honest... ).
Last edited: