Rocket Carriers

[Bobrogg]

All,

looking for ideas for transporting and storing large rockets, what is your favorite method for rocket transport to and from the launch site?

 

[Antares JS]

My advice is to make your big rockets easy to dismantle. I can carry my 14-foot level 3 cert rocket in my Ford Focus because it breaks down into three four-foot body sections plus the 2-foot nose. Flip the back seats down and it fits in that tiny car with room to spare for all my other equipment.

 

[311stylie]

Same. Take them apart to fit. I'm either using the back seat of my truck or for longer trips I take the wife's Bronco, and everything goes in the back with the seats down. I put all body parts in old pillow cases. Poor man's version of the rocket sock. Works like a charm.

 

[cbrarick]

8.5x24 trailer. Solar is a bonus.....

 

[Bobrogg]

Same. Take them apart to fit. I'm either using the back seat of my truck or for longer trips I take the wife's Bronco, and everything goes in the back with the seats down. I put all body parts in old pillow cases. Poor man's version of the rocket sock. Works like a charm.

that is my current method but I get a lot of hangar rash and it limits me on placing cargo above the rockets

 

[lr64]

Ski boxes on top of the car can be useful, though they used to hurt the mileage on my Saturn even more than a small trailer did. I admit I used them for model airplanes. For storage, I've sometimes made cardboard boxes to reduce hangar rash. If memory serves, I have one over six feet long for a real white elephant of a glider that I couldn't bear to see go in the trash. Detachable fins could make big rockets much easier to stow, assuming one could solve the engineering problems. Maybe just make two of them detachable so that the rocket is sort of in one plane.

 

[cwbullet]

You could haul some rockets on this:



I bought an F250 and cargo trailer.

 

[cbrarick]

Hey Chuck:

Was the F250 and trailer to fit on top of your rig (in the picture)?

 

[lr64]

If they need an F-250, AND a trailer, those must be some very heavy rockets.

For most with long rockets, wouldn't a sailplane trailer and a regular car do the job?
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https://i.redd.it/7hnmlytovr351.jpg
I would hope that most sophisticated rocketeers (with the exception of the squared-off fin crowd) would add fairings to anything so crude.

 

[JimByrne]

I bought a bunch of cheap towels and wrap each rocket then put them in a long cardboard box.
Where needed I shorten them by removing the nose cone.

 

[Art Upton]

Detachable fins could make big rockets much easier to stow, assuming one could solve the engineering problems. Maybe just make two of them detachable so that the rocket is sort of in one plane.

Real sounding rockets solved that problem, you bolt the fins on to the airframe with bolts. There are some Hobby Rockets that do the same thing. AL fins that have tabs on each side of the root to bolt to the airframe.

I just sold my last pack of 4 of them about a month ago here designed for 5-6" rockets. I had another pack I sold here in 2021 as well, as I am not going to be able to use them now.

 

[Art Upton]

I bought a bunch of cheap towels and wrap each rocket then put them in a long cardboard box.
Where needed I shorten them by removing the nose cone.

I put down a Moving blanket in the bed of the truck and put rockets on top of that while using more moving blankets around them.

Harbor Freight about 15 years or so ago was always having a coupon for moving blankets cheap for some reason.

 

[Capt. Eric]

For my smaller ones, I stand them up in a box and surround them with air pillows and towels to keep from beating into each other. For the larger ones that come apart, lay them on boxes (to protect the fins) and towels or Harbor Freight blankets. Then I sometimes lay a towel over the top to help keep them from rolling around. LDRS will be tight though. I have a bunch of big awkward ones I want to get up there. I have a box on a hitch rack that will hold nose cones and smaller parts. The wide fin sections in the back of the Outback. Gonna be tight. Need lots of towels!

 

[Pem Tech]

What about protective cases, boxes or enclosures? I've seen some built from sheets of foam insulation. So many of my older rockets have been brutalized over the years.

 

[cerving]

It depends on how big "large" is, but I hang most of mine horizontally from the rafters of the garage. My extended Polecat Thumper is too big for that, so I just have it sitting vertically on the side of my workbench... it just clears the rollup garage door.

 

[WizardOfBoz]

There are a couple of failure modes here. One is breaking a fin off. I'd love to try bolt-on fins, they sound cool. But most rockets have epoxy fillets. The other failure mode is kinking a tube.

I was thinking that one might use sonotube (round very heavy cardboard concrete form), with two large foam centering rings to hold the rocket. Might even be able to ship a rocket like this, though I'd break it into pieces (your 21' 1/3 scale Black Brant XII would be .... problematic. And costly!). But a 12 inch tube is about 10 bucks a foot and is available in VERY long lengths.

 

[SolarYellow]

This thread makes me miss my LWB GMC Savana 3500. Biggest rocket I have any plans to build is 84x4 inches, so should do fine in my current mid-size SUV.

A business that shares the parking lot with my employer has put large, custom-made equipment enclosures outside since their need for them is gone and they don't have any good way to get rid of them. I'm sure they'd be free for anyone willing to come get them (SE TX area). Would handle some quite large rockets, robust to truck freight. And they're on wheels.

 

[Art Upton]

There are a couple of failure modes here. One is breaking a fin off. I'd love to try bolt-on fins, they sound cool. But most rockets have epoxy fillets. The other failure mode is kinking a tube.

Ever see a Sounding Rocket with epoxy or other fillets?

I have flown many many rockets with no outside fillets. They had them inside to hold the fins only to the MMT.

The body tube slides over the fin can and is bolted on the bottom and side centering rings, just like some aerospace structures. Seal the slots to fins with clear or white sealer, goop or other silicone RTV like. You can peal it back off to take the tube off again if needed. Sealing keeps air out of the slots.

Thrust goes from the thrust ring on the motor to the rear centering ring. The centering rings and the fins on the body tube slots transfer the thrust to the body tube, that transfers it to the switch ring and your screwed in coupler to the upper payload section and nose cone; throughout the whole rocket. This was all with LOC Kraft tube rockets, largest one my L3 Bruiser on an M motor.

But if the fins bolt on, no need for fillets inside or outside.

One example an Estes Partison on an I205 twice. No outside fillets, no Epoxy anywhere, just Gorilla glue for Fins to MMT. The three body tubes were only friction fit together with Masking tape on the couplers for shipping take down ability* Larger rockets couplers would be screwed together.

Amazing Flights.

* I needed to take the rocket down to put in a shipping box to ship to the launch Hold At FedEX and then to ship back home while I took an Airline fight.

 

[WizardOfBoz]

Thanks, Art. Useful info, backed with data (that is, experience).

I like your "bolt on" construction with internal fillets. If you break a fin, you can actually repair it. Nice. What might be cool would be 3d printed fillets so that when you put the fin can in, the external fillets are there. I seem to recall that the unfilleted body to fin joint has high drag. Is that correct?

I considered some of this line of logic building my Super DX3, albeit using glued fillets. As a result, I added an additional centering ring that the front inboard fin tang glued to. Figured this both took some of the thrust from the fins (rear centering ring transmits force to both the body tube and the fin tang in the DX3). I considered building the internals of the fin can first, then cutting the fin slots so that I could slide the assembly in. Instead, I put the front CR onto the MMT, glued it in, and then glued the (novel) middle CR in just where the front of the fins went. Along with the fins. That allowed me to fillet the fin-to-mtt, the fin to middle CR, and the internal fillet between BT and the fin.

One interesting point was that I let the glue for the fins set up using fin templates cut from cardboard stock, but I hung the rocket so that it was supported by a 6 inch pvc plumbing fixture. This added enough pressure to distort the bottom of the tube, so I had to do some sanding to ensure that the rear CR went in.

I don't think I'm lucky enough (certainly not counting on it) for one of my rockets to successfully fly an "I" without fillets!. I do think that I will probably fit my Argent tubes for the small diameter (I had to buy two tubes with fin slots as unslotted 2" "Pro Series" tubes aren't available) using masking take and friction fit. But I'll also have a kevlar strap between the transition and the nose cone so that if it does come apart I won't lose pieces. And I'll drill vent holes....

Pic of the fins and fillets from the Super DX3 (foreground), Estes Argent (right). Also the loose fitup of Cris Erving's Eggtimer Dual Deploy. I need to finish the first two rockets, and then build a launch rail before the DD gets build.

 

[lr64]

What about protective cases, boxes or enclosures? I've seen some built from sheets of foam insulation. So many of my older rockets have been brutalized over the years.

A number of guys I know use foam boxes to protect their stick and tissue model airplanes. I think they're 1 inch blue Styrofoam or similar. It might be wise to put some wood pieces in the corners of the long edges if the box is long and skinny. They'd probably be almost bulletproof if glassed inside and out . If you're really out for bulletproof*, Highload 60 hardly weighs any more than the heavier blue foam, but the compressive strength is 60 psi instead of 25. OTOH, if you live in Arizona or something, you'd better paint any styrene foam box white and not keep it in the car with the windows closed in the summer. Polyurethane foam ought to handle a little more heat, but don't hot wire it, as it apparently gives off nastier fumes. I don't know which flavors of polyurethane foam have appropriate strength, unless you are buying the expensive stuff made for airplanes. I wonder if cardboard honeycomb might be a good material for light rocket boxes, particularly if coated with epoxy or paint. The former definitely toughens up kraft paper if it can soak in for a while. At least for epoxy that sets fairly hard.

I've built some model boxes with luan plywood, but they can be heavy for large models. Cheaper and probably stronger than 12 inch Sonotube, but not nice and round. And more work, obviously. I suppose really thin luan could be made into a cylinder. A weatherproofed Sonotube might make a convenient, relatively low drag roof box.

For light stuff, you can glue in appropriate pieces of upholstery foam that will hold your small model rocket in place, but this probably isn't enough for anything very large. There are some foams that are still flexible, but more rigid than upholstery foam that might make good cradles for them. Study how they package your appliances, electronics, etc.

I have a model plane box that was built by a real craftsman. I think he may have given it to me, because I'm too cheap to pay a fair price for such a thing. It's plywood, with a hinge at the back and foam cradles made for the particular design I have in it. The model parts are held in by Velcro and by padded wood held by Velcro.

*For really wimpy bullets, I guess.

 

[SolarYellow]

Ever see a Sounding Rocket with epoxy or other fillets?

Nope.

There are some things in this hobby that are taken as gospel and repeated virtually universally without understanding. One is the aerodynamic necessity of fillets. I've traced the source material from Stine back through Hoerner. Have posted the details elsewhere on this forum, but the "fillets should be 5-8% of chord" rule of thumb is wildly misapplied on a rocket fin. There is another graph in Hoerner that shows that the interference drag approaches (or maybe even passes) zero for a chord/thickness ratio greater than about 15 or so.

On that basis, I've concluded that the only purpose of fin fillets is to ensure integrity of the glue joint. Anything beyond that is excess weight and frontal area.

 

[Art Upton]

Thanks, Art. Useful info, backed with data (that is, experience).

I like your "bolt on" construction with internal fillets. If you break a fin, you can actually repair it. Nice. What might be cool would be 3d printed fillets so that when you put the fin can in, the external fillets are there. I seem to recall that the unfilleted body to fin joint has high drag. Is that correct?

I considered some of this line of logic building my Super DX3, albeit using glued fillets. As a result, I added an additional centering ring that the front inboard fin tang glued to. Figured this both took some of the thrust from the fins (rear centering ring transmits force to both the body tube and the fin tang in the DX3). I considered building the internals of the fin can first, then cutting the fin slots so that I could slide the assembly in. Instead, I put the front CR onto the MMT, glued it in, and then glued the (novel) middle CR in just where the front of the fins went. Along with the fins. That allowed me to fillet the fin-to-mtt, the fin to middle CR, and the internal fillet between BT and the fin.

One interesting point was that I let the glue for the fins set up using fin templates cut from cardboard stock, but I hung the rocket so that it was supported by a 6 inch pvc plumbing fixture. This added enough pressure to distort the bottom of the tube, so I had to do some sanding to ensure that the rear CR went in.

I don't think I'm lucky enough (certainly not counting on it) for one of my rockets to successfully fly an "I" without fillets!. I do think that I will probably fit my Argent tubes for the small diameter (I had to buy two tubes with fin slots as unslotted 2" "Pro Series" tubes arent' available) using masking take and friction fit. But I'll also have a kevlar strap between the transition and the nose cone so that if it does come apart I won't lose pieces. And I'll drill vent holes....

Pic of the fins and fillets from the Super DX3 (foreground), Estes Argent (right). Also the loose fitup of Cris Erving's Eggtimer Dual Deploy. I need to finish the first two rockets, and then build a launch rail before the DD gets build.

View attachment 645457

On the build a fin can and slide the tube on after even LOC is now showing that in some of their newer instructions as an alternative. At least my Goblin 4" instructions has that in it. I even built a BT60 mini Bruiser that way.

Unless your doing an altitude contest the non-fillet drag won't be noticed, but I would not do that on a min-diameter rocket unless the fins were Aluminum and bolted on.

 

[Art Upton]

On that basis, I've concluded that the only purpose of fin fillets is to ensure integrity of the glue joint. Anything beyond that is excess weight and frontal area.

^Mostly This, Mostly... A NAR altitude contest might benefit from them on the smaller sizes... But But, I've seen them using very super almost paper thin Flat Plate G10 fins glued direct with CA to the body tube and nothing else.

So on non-min diameter rockets I put the Fillets for glue joint integrity on the inside to the motor mount, and just seal the Aero-Skin [Body tube] to the fins to keep air out. I'm not building Carbon Fiber Altitude/Speed Rockets.

Although I do have one in 54mm still in my Living Room. * I've sold the motor system for it already however

 

[lr64]

If the fins extend onto a boat tail, though, it will be a different story. In that case, it might be best to use really significant fillets that get bigger as you get further aft. If you look closely at pictures of V2 rockets, you will see this sort of fillet. I don't know how these fillets do in transonic or supersonic flow, though. For a straight fuselage, I think fillets aren't so important aerodynamically, and wouldn't do any good on forward fins on an expanding part of the rocket body.

If there is a rigid connection between the outer body tube and the fin, there may be a stress concentration there which could be alleviated with a bit more material.
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Back in the rocket carrier department, I've seen model bags made of that insulation that looks kind of like hefty silver bubble pack. One brand is Reflectix, but I don't think other brands I've seen are inferior. This is excellent, light padding, though if you are going to fly with your rocket, or maybe even just drive over the Rockies, you may want to allow a bit of room for those bubbles to expand. A little bit of the silvery coating sometimes rubs off on the contents of the bags if they are not covered with something like fabric.

A quick way to avoid dings on something like fins is to make up an envelope for them from light poster board. With scissors and a stapler, you could probably make one of these covers in 5 minutes. Or use USPS, UPS, or Fedex envelopes of various kinds. You can find thin, single layer cardboard, some kind of fiber padding, or a slightly more robust, thinner version of bubble pack.

Avoid anything translucent (or transparent) and insulating if it might ever be left in the sun with rocket parts in it. The heat is bad for most epoxy, polystyrene foam, and probably a bunch of other stuff. This is from a bad experience at a latitude of about 42 degrees, not far above sea level, on a day that wasn't especially hot.

 

[teepot]

To take rockets to a launch I put some foam pieces and a heavy blanket on the floor in the back of the Explorer. Lay three or four rockets on it nose to tail. Put shop towels between the rockets so they don't rub together. Put another heavy blanket on top of the first layer and repeat for each additional layer. That takes up one side in the back. The other side has everything else. The back ends up full top to bottom and side to side. I don't know how to pack light. On the way to the launch I drive 80 down the highway. Haven't broke a rocket in transport yet.

 

[Art Upton]

If the fins extend onto a boat tail, though, it will be a different story. In that case, it might be best to use really significant fillets that get bigger as you get further aft. If you look closely at pictures of V2 rockets, you will see this sort of fillet. I don't know how these fillets do in transonic or supersonic flow, though. For a straight fuselage, I think fillets aren't so important aerodynamically, and wouldn't do any good on forward fins on an expanding part of the rocket body.

I've never seen that, or done that myself on my Black Brant IIs or Arcus models that have fins into the boat tail.
I don't recall real V2s having that either on ones I have seen at White Sands, perhaps I missed that.

 

[lr64]

I've never seen that, or done that myself on my Black Brant IIs or Arcus models that have fins into the boat tail.
I don't recall real V2s having that either on ones I have seen at White Sands, perhaps I missed that.

I looked at some photos just to check before I posted it. I don't think I ever noticed it until I was specifically thinking about fin fillets and boat tails. It shows up pretty well here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-2_rocket#/media/File:Antwerp_V-2.jpg
Not sure extending the fins past the boat tail was such a great idea, though.

I looked up pictures of real Black Brants of various marks, though not the II. No boat tails, though obviously there's one on the model. I also looked up some pictures of the Arcas. No big fillet in the back on those. Maybe because the aft part of the fin, even at the base, appears to be a movable control surface. Plus it's a modest boat tail.

Again, I don't know if there's any advantage at supersonic speeds.

 

[DAllen]

For transport I have some old and worn out sleeping bags. I unzipped them so they lay flat like a blanket and I put the rockets in the car in layers with a layer of sleeping bag in between. I like using those because they have insulation in them that acts as padding. You could achieve the same results with comforters.

 

[Banzai88]

For transport I have some old and worn out sleeping bags. I unzipped them so they lay flat like a blanket and I put the rockets in the car in layers with a layer of sleeping bag in between. I like using those because they have insulation in them that acts as padding. You could achieve the same results with comforters.

Brilliant!

We've been using the cheap moving blankets from Harbor Freight in much the same manner.