FlightSketch Gear

[techrat]

I'm getting seriously concerned. Russ (@gtg738w) has been silent since I last was in touch with him around NARAM-64. I've tried emails, I've tried a conversation here, and I've even tried contacting another member of his club in CT.

Well, I order occassionally from his webstore. -- it takes him 2 weeks to ship, but the stuff does get to me, so he's still doing stuff, but it seems like it's a "spare time" activity. He's not restocking his store though -- when he runs out, it's "unavailable"....

 

[BEC]

I continue to hope that his lack of "spare time" is for good reasons and not some serious illness or crisis in his family.

 

[SolarYellow]

I've placed several orders. They usually take awhile to ship, but they do ship.

I'd say I'm looking forward to the next FS Mini run, but now I have two, so I think I'm covered.

 

[DaHabes]

It's a bummer that the FS Mini and Comp aren't available. I like to get altitude data on my flights, and the Comp is the best alternative for LPR. I lost the one I had on a flight gone bad (ouch) and I lost the Mini I had in another flight gone bad (double ouch). Then there are the SST and Sport, which would be ideal for LPR minimum diameter, high altitude rockets (clusters and multi-stage). I have multi-stage clusters in the fleet but can't really max them out unless I can do apogee deploy and tracking.

 

[mh9162013]

It's a bummer that the FS Mini and Comp aren't available. I like to get altitude data on my flights, and the Comp is the best alternative for LPR. I lost the one I had on a flight gone bad (ouch) and I lost the Mini I had in another flight gone bad (double ouch). Then there are the SST and Sport, which would be ideal for LPR minimum diameter, high altitude rockets (clusters and multi-stage). I have multi-stage clusters in the fleet but can't really max them out unless I can do apogee deploy and tracking.

If you're willing to bring a laptop to your launch, you could use the MicroPeak and its USB dongle to transfer data from it to your computer. Definitely much more cumbersome than the FS Mini, but it's the only alternative I'm aware of that works with my BT-20 rockets.

I haven't done it myself because I'm still holding out for the FS Mini. But I will eventually get to a point where I'm done waiting.

 

[SolarYellow]

I have put a lot of effort into recovering an FS Mini when I'd have happily left the rocket it was installed in in that tree.

 

[SolarYellow]

If you're willing to bring a laptop to your launch, you could use the MicroPeak and its USB dongle to transfer data from it to your computer. Definitely much more cumbersome than the FS Mini, but it's the only alternative I'm aware of that works with my BT-20 rockets.

I haven't done it myself because I'm still holding out for the FS Mini. But I will eventually get to a point where I'm done waiting.

I have both. I like both. FS Mini is easier to use on rockets where it fits.

 

[mh9162013]

I have both. I like both. FS Mini is easier to use on rockets where it fits.

I like my MicroPeak, too.

Question: Obviously the FS Mini's wireless data transfer is nice, but assume for a moment that the MicroPeak had the same capability (and was the same physical size as the FS Mini). Which altimeter would you prefer?

 

[SolarYellow]

I'd go with the Mini because of the wireless data. If the FSMini was the size of the MicroPeak and actually available, I probably wouldn't bother with the MicroPeak.

 

[mh9162013]

I'd go with the Mini because of the wireless data. If the FSMini was the size of the MicroPeak and actually available, I probably wouldn't bother with the MicroPeak.

But what if they both had the wireless data transfer ability? You'd still take the FS Mini?

I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out how they compare as data loggers.

 

[BEC]

If you're willing to bring a laptop to your launch, you could use the MicroPeak and its USB dongle to transfer data from it to your computer. Definitely much more cumbersome than the FS Mini, but it's the only alternative I'm aware of that works with my BT-20 rockets.

I haven't done it myself because I'm still holding out for the FS Mini. But I will eventually get to a point where I'm done waiting.

There is another option. This one also requires bringing a computer — specifically a Windows computer — to the field. It is the Adrel ALT-BMP, otherwise known as the North Coast MaxAlt. (the link is for all the bits you need if you don't already have one) This is currently the only altimeter used in FAI competition.

 

[SolarYellow]

Fo' sho'. But it's 2-3x more expensive than the other options under discussion. If I needed to fit in BT-5, or if I need minimum size and weight electronic deployment, then I'll be sending some money to NCR.

As for the difference between FSM and MP as data loggers, I don't have a strong opinion. I guess I haven't used either of them to the level where they would greatly differentiate in that regard. Read the respective manuals, think about your use cases, and try the one you think best fits.

 

[BEC]

But what if they both had the wireless data transfer ability? You'd still take the FS Mini?

I'm asking because I'm trying to figure out how they compare as data loggers.

The MicroPeak was a marvel when it first came out, especially when the ability to download data was added (it wasn't there at first). But — it can do ~47s worth of data and that's it. It is barometric only, so only altitude and stats that can be calculated from the baro data. It's interfacing app is in Java so runs on PCs, Macs and Linux machines. The connected-by-USB interface to get the data out, which works optically, is very clever but takes a little care to use reliably. The downloaded data is only half of the actual samples taken. The MicroPeak is also much more sensitive to light than the FS devices (or the Adrel).

The FlightSketch Mini and Comp (they are functionally essentially identical) have a much longer data capture period. I don't actually know what the limit is. And they also have a 3-axis accelerometer aboard, which gives all kinds of additional data. In particular I have found these data VERY enlightening around how long delays actually are rather than what's on the motor label. And of course there's the whole Bluetooth thing which means you can arm it, read it and reset it all without touching it. Apps for both iOS and Android (though the Android one seems to have fallen out of the Play store). Assuming you already have a suitable phone/tablet there is no additional hardware required. Data is taken at 20 Hz and is downloaded at that level of detail.

 

[BEC]

Fo' sho'. But it's 2-3x more expensive than the other options under discussion. If I needed to fit in BT-5, or if I need minimum size and weight electronic deployment, then I'll be sending some money to NCR.

Twice as expensive as the currently listed price for the Mini, yes. A little more expensive than a Comp and its LiPoly cell, yes.

As for the difference between FSM and MP as data loggers, I don't have a strong opinion. I guess I haven't used either of them to the level where they would greatly differentiate in that regard. Read the respective manuals, think about your use cases, and try the one you think best fits.

I have LOTS of flights on both devices. My prior post touches the surface of what I see as differences.

 

[mh9162013]

There is another option. This one also requires bringing a computer — specifically a Windows computer — to the field. It is the Adrel ALT-BMP, otherwise known as the North Coast MaxAlt. (the link is for all the bits you need if you don't already have one) This is currently the only altimeter used in FAI competition.

That doesn't record other flight parameters (speed, acceleration, etc.) like the MicroPeak, right?

 

[mh9162013]

The MicroPeak was a marvel when it first came out, especially when the ability to download data was added (it wasn't there at first). But — it can do ~47s worth of data and that's it. It is barometric only, so only altitude and stats that can be calculated from the baro data. It's interfacing app is in Java so runs on PCs, Macs and Linux machines. The connected-by-USB interface to get the data out, which works optically, is very clever but takes a little care to use reliably. The downloaded data is only half of the actual samples taken. The MicroPeak is also much more sensitive to light than the FS devices (or the Adrel).

The FlightSketch Mini and Comp (they are functionally essentially identical) have a much longer data capture period. I don't actually know what the limit is. And they also have a 3-axis accelerometer aboard, which gives all kinds of additional data. In particular I have found these data VERY enlightening around how long delays actually are rather than what's on the motor label. And of course there's the whole Bluetooth thing which means you can arm it, read it and reset it all without touching it. Apps for both iOS and Android (though the Android one seems to have fallen out of the Play store). Assuming you already have a suitable phone/tablet there is no additional hardware required. Data is taken at 20 Hz and is downloaded at that level of detail.

Thank you for the detailed explanation of differences. FS Mini seems so much better than the MicroPeak. But then again, the best altimeter is one you can actually buy...

If the FS Mini goes on sale again, I may buy like 3 or 4 of them so I can use them without being scared of losing or breaking them.

 

[DaHabes]

If you're willing to bring a laptop to your launch, you could use the MicroPeak and its USB dongle to transfer data from it to your computer. Definitely much more cumbersome than the FS Mini, but it's the only alternative I'm aware of that works with my BT-20 rockets.

I haven't done it myself because I'm still holding out for the FS Mini. But I will eventually get to a point where I'm done waiting.

I've tried to avoid having to use a laptop at all on the field. It's cumbersome and takes time away from flying. When high power windows are in short supply in the Midwest (only winter), time is precious. Plus, fingers don't work so good on the keyboard when the temp is in the 20's...

 

[SolarYellow]

I've easily built ebays for the MicroPeak in two different Estes BT-20 nose cones with a little extra room for it to rattle around (added padding to reduce the rattle). No need to build a BT-size ebay that extends the length of the rocket and adds more weight. Can't do that with the FS Mini, as it won't fit inside the cone. Could do it with the Adrel, but again, the cost. So, horses for courses.

Great writeup, BTW @BEC.

 

[mh9162013]

I've tried to avoid having to use a laptop at all on the field. It's cumbersome and takes time away from flying. When high power windows are in short supply in the Midwest (only winter), time is precious. Plus, fingers don't work so good on the keyboard when the temp is in the 20's...

I hear ya. I have enough crap and stuff to keep track of and handle. The last thing I want to worry about is having a laptop with me in the middle of a baseball field.

 

[mh9162013]

I've easily built ebays for the MicroPeak in two different Estes BT-20 nose cones with a little extra room for it to rattle around (added padding to reduce the rattle). No need to build a BT-size ebay that extends the length of the rocket and adds more weight. Can't do that with the FS Mini, as it won't fit inside the cone. Could do it with the Adrel, but again, the cost. So, horses for courses.

Great writeup, BTW @BEC.

The FS Mini should easily fit inside a BT-20 nose cone, like the ones used by the Yankee and Wizard. And when I say fit, part of it might stick out a little bit into the BT-20 main body tube, but a good portion of the FS Mini should be in the nose cone.

 

[BEC]

That doesn't record other flight parameters (speed, acceleration, etc.) like the MicroPeak, right?

The MicroPeak doesn't record speed and acceleration. It's app calculates them from changes in pressure data from sample to sample. The Adrel app also gives acceleration in its graph. I'll try to get back here and post an example graph, but they're all on my little Lenovo Thinkpad I take to the field, so not here on my Mac.

I've tried to avoid having to use a laptop at all on the field. It's cumbersome and takes time away from flying. When high power windows are in short supply in the Midwest (only winter), time is precious. Plus, fingers don't work so good on the keyboard when the temp is in the 20's...

We're talking about tiny altimeters in LPRs here, not high power. Fingers don't work so good on these tiny devices, regardless of how one interacts with them, when it's that cold....
That said, the laptop-at-the-field is at best a mixed blessing. I usually bring the little Lenovo when I go fly, but I often don't use it at the field.

The FS Mini should easily fit inside a BT-20 nose cone, like the ones used by the Yankee and Wizard. And when I say fit, part of it might stick out a little bit into the BT-20 main body tube, but a good portion of the FS Mini should be in the nose cone.

Unfortunately, Dan (@SolarYellow) is correct. The Mini won't fit in a Wizard nose cone. It's close, but it won't. The constraint is part of the cell holder. This is a Wizard cone with the bottom piece not installed, but instead some Kevlar glued to the inside as a tether:



MicroPeak and Adrel will fit just fine:





In all these cases, restraining the altimeter would be something you'd have to provide for.

And finally, I know I've put pictures like this up here before, but — top row left is Adrel ALT-BMP and its cell, FS Comp and its cell on the right. Bottom is MicroPeak and FS Mini. The cutting mat they are on is ruled in 1/2 inch squares.



Two supply chain things: first, cells to power the Adrels were a limiting factor at the WSMC in July. I would check with NCR if you're ordering one to be sure Matt has them. Other cells will work, but the connector is set up uniquely on the Adrel (using the outer two of three pins) so it's more than a little bit of a pain to adapt something else.

Second, there WILL be more FS Minis and Comps. I can't say when they will be available, as I know that depends on Russ Parrish's available time to program them (I did hear a little bit from him yesterday). But several hundred of each do exist, and Russ has them. Russ is busy with other things in his life than FlightSketch, which is good for him but not so good for us....

 

[mh9162013]

Unfortunately, Dan (@SolarYellow) is correct. The Mini won't fit in a Wizard nose cone. It's close, but it won't. The constraint is part of the cell holder. This is a Wizard cone with the bottom piece not installed, but instead some Kevlar glued to the inside as a tether:

I stand corrected!

Do you have an estes Yankee nose cone? I know the FS Mini fits in there, so I presumed it fit in the Wizard/Viking nose cone, too. I was wrong, obviously.

 

[BEC]

I stand corrected!

Do you have an estes Yankee nose cone? I know the FS Mini fits in there, so I presumed it fit in the Wizard/Viking nose cone, too. I was wrong, obviously.

No, I don’t. So I can’t help there. The Yankee never much appealed to me so I’ve never gotten one.

 

[DaHabes]

The fact that there are HUNDREDS of the Mini and Comp made and what they need is programming is major. I think everyone's assumptions up to this point has been component supply chain issues, which hit many vendors. Since the Mini and Comp used to work, I am also assuming that he had to change components in the designs to what is now available, which requires reprogramming. It all makes sense in that context.

I can wait...

 

[BEC]

It was difficulties getting parts (would you believe one of them was the battery holder and some thoughts of a redesign including a small rechargeable cell were kicked around?) but in the end the new ones are the same hardware as the prior batch (both Mini and Comp). However actually getting the parts was NOT straightforward, nor was getting the current batches made.

They still each need to have a hardware check, firmware loaded and then get packaged for shipment. I expect that’s tedious and a bit time consuming. Here’s hoping he can find the time soonish.

 

[Dave Stephens]

Can anyone provide an update on the availability of FlightSketch gear -- or the status of the company in general?

Hey, anyone heard anything about the FlightSketch Mini availability ? Lost a rocket last Sunday and need one. Is there any hope of a new production run ?

 

[BEC]

As noted in my post above made on September 28th it is my understanding that Russ has hardware (assembled Minis and Comps) in hand but they need to be tested and firmware loaded. Apparently real life has gotten in the way of doing this but I have no details (and have not gotten a response to my latest query).

 

[cwbullet]

As noted in my post above made on September 28th it is my understanding that Russ has hardware (assembled Minis and Comps) in hand but they need to be tested and firmware loaded. Apparently real life has gotten in the way of doing this but I have no details (and have not gotten a response to my latest query).

I hope he and his family are well. We can wait.

 

[SmurfTacoSupreme]

Just a little tickle of this thread to keep the dream alive.

 

[shockie]

He could send them all to me and I'd flash and test the firmware.