TLP Hawk 1.6 Build Thread

1. Layout yer 20# typing paper. (laser paper, whatever... :roll. Make sure when you pivot the fin over the leading edge you are going to be covering the both sides. Long fins like this can be tricky. I had to position it on a diagonal, just so. Make a pencil outline so you get it right (yes that is my fat arse making a cameo appearance)
2. So you spray a light but complete coat of the 3M spray adhesive on the fin and press it on lined up pretty much with the pencil marks you made. Make sure those edges are down and the fin is flat.
3. Get some weight on it and let it sit 10 minutes or so.
   
   

1. This part get a little tricky. You want to make sure the paper is going to wrap smoothly around the rounded leading edge. What I did is practice first before putting down the adhesive. (You might also try a light brushing of water on the paper along the leading edge. Be careful! You don't want the paper ripping as you wrap it!). Notice the wrist watch replete with spray paint overspray... :bangpan::bangpan::bangpan:
2. Spray the adhesive lightly but with through coverage on the fin and fold the paper over the leading edge and smooth down as you go. Try as I might, I did not make one fin that did not get a little glue on the outside from my fat fingering it. No matter. It'll sand out later. Press down the edges and get it back under some weights.

• Lather rinse and repeat for the other fins.
• Pick out the fruit flies doing a backstroke in your cocktail.
• Then take a long drag off that Aviation, you deserve it.
  oint:oint:
  Notice no cutting was done nor were power tools used whilst having an adult cocktail. Lets be safe out there.

1. Hours later, you can take a new single edge and trim as close as you dare. Burnish down the edges first. Then I make a pretty close cut. This leave very thin amounts of paper left. I then get in closer and cut those away.
2. Sometime this leaves a rough booger here and there.
3. Sandpaper, in this case 220, can be used on the edges to sand though the crease in the paper leaving a pretty darn clean edge. I forgot who said a sharpening stone makes a good small sanding block. But whoever you were, thanks!
4. Fins

By the time you build your second or third TLP kit, wood filler, squadron putty/bondo, tacky glue, thin but not so thin Loctite super glue you can spread with a toothpick will all be your best friends when it comes to getting those numerous paper shrouds and hats to look and perform their best. Do you hear those Pershing 1A shrouds calling yet?

Such good techniques, such a clean work area, wrapping your paper around the rounded leading edge, using a syringe to glue instead of your pinky! Pay attention kids! That spray adhesive does go everywhere, still trying to get it out of the basement shower that I decided to use as a booth for spray mounting on one kit last winter - bad idea - and bad technique not building a proper spray booth. Well, that is what you get when using my down and dirty techniques to crank out TLP kits.

And I like you are living on the edge by putting some heavy metal and positive motor retention in the hind end, yet keeping a sharp scientific eye on that CP-CG relationship. The Kevlar mount and moving the "falschirmhaltenrung" up are cool mods as well! So many TLP build threads with so many mods, so much pain and suffering in the build and then they go to fly it and then for the rest of the build thread ... sounds of crickets ... Hello??? Mostly we never seem to find out what happened, sometimes there is a good crash, and rarely do they fly great. I think as long as you stay away from bullet proofing for big motors you are fine - unless you are a real rocket scientist.

Also glad to see you are not panicking if the tail cone doesn't fit perfectly - it is a low cost TLP kit for Pete's sake. Just go and get a cocktail - drinking already on the first Skill level 3 TLP kit in the queue, you are going to make several beer runs by the time you finish the skill level 5 Krypton.

I never really know where to put these build logs. Scale? Low Power? Mid Power? Sometimes I think Chris M has it right. Do your build logs on a blog... or on Rocketry Reviews.


Anyway... where were we...

1. Slather up the tail cone area with Fill n Finish. Really this is not a good choice... Some sort of ready to use spot putty would be better. Recommendations? Nonetheless, it works in a pinch
2. With the tail cone dry and sanded its time to make my mark on this build. Print out and cut out a free Fliskits marking guide. (Careful when printing them, each page of the 3 page document needed a slightly different scale on my laser printer to come out accurate. Use plain paper before wasting your good cardstock to get the scale correct.)
3. Straight edge and make your marks.
4. 180 degrees from each other make a dashed mark for the conduits.
   

Now I don't recommend you do this. Then why did I? Cause. :2:

I took a fine T-Pin and put little holes on the root edge of the fins and the tube. Will it really make it stronger? I really don't know. I do know the double glue joints will be fine. The fillets will soak through the paper and into the wood, so I expect those too to be structure as well as lower drag. So this maybe a pure waste of time. Its mine to waste. More :2:

1. Pin and fin
2. Body and holes
3. Fin and holes
4. Finage on rocket and a mistake...

While its not obvious from the last picture of the first fin on the rocket, I had forgotten to cut the small tab off the outer trailing edge and I had not scored the lines on the fins where the steering vanes are on the real McCoy. Smart aye? This is why I'd never be a sodmeister, boosterdude, or hcmbanjo. Just not that kind of craftsmen.

Doing that sort of work once the fins are on is likely for me, to cause more damage than good.

So I went to work on the other fins whilst this first one dried enough to work on it with the fin on the edge of the counter and the body tube hanging over the edge.

1. So I took the pattern supplied with the kit and cut the notches in the three other fins. No picture of that?... anyway the picture I do have is a single edge blade with the sharp end covered in tons of tape. Its the other rounded edge I am going to score the surfaces of the fins with.
2. Like so
3. Hey... this looks pretty good... and you can see the notch
4. Hot damn... I wonder if'n it'll be okay at finishing time... only one way to find out.

Ain't nothin' better than a wettin' down some FNF and a slatherin'. Let er dry, do some sandin' and coughin' from the dust. If ya really want er prudy then get out the super toxic sandin' sealer and go for at least 3 coats with more sandin' and coughin'! Pain and sufferin' for the perfectly smooth scale finish is what it is all about! And keepin' the weight off the hinny is the Ancient Chinese Secret! You could use bondo or squadron putty but they are even more toxic than good ole FNF. What? Do you want to live forever? Or do you want to happily go to your grave knowing all your rockets were perfect in every way.

I was so disappointed when I saw the real Nike Ajax, on the fins it looked like some Jr. High School dude in a metal shop riveted to two pieces of sheet metal together real fast - like it was an expendable rocket that the contractor was making a big profit on. NO! I said, it just ain't right! Scale model rockets have to be as smooth and perfect as a baby's hinny - I just don't want to see the rough & bumpy real V2 that looks like it was put together with forced labor. Keep up the good work and make er smooth as glass!

On the marking guides - Your a hardened TLP builder - you don't need no stinkin' fin marking guides. If you can't figure out how to make on in less than a minute, well, then, you just ain't TLP material. No fancy fin alignment jigs either - those are for Estes wussies. Put the fins on in a cruciform pattern - that's all that needs to be said.

And if you can' figure out where to glue the launch lug or find the CG then it is time to head back to the 3FNC kiddie rockets isle and stay there until you learn how to be a true builder! Oh all the cotton headed, kit buildin' nini-muggins! Was that too harsh? Am I coming across as some sort of TLP Prima Donna getting kicks out of blasting wee BARs on their TLP builds? Do I just need to go over to YORF and hang out with the TLP haters?:y::eyepop::wink::dark::eyeroll::bangbang::tongue::bangpan::cyclops:uke::2::surprised:op::madnote::rant::neener: Don't you just love these little guys?

I would bet that unless you use a lot of expensive high fill auto primer and put on over 5 coats of paint your scored lines will be fine.

1. Fillets Drying
2. Sand down the conduit ends. I use the masking tape to keep a sharp edge. It's easier to sand these before cutting the strips.
3. Thin strip of masking tape to hold off paint and primer where the conduit will get glued. It's way thinner than the wood and a bit shorter on the ends than the wood will be, so there will be no bare spots exposed once the conduit is attached
4. Here we have scrap plywood marked off in inches. The forward fiber bulkhead, and the BT55 will be used to drive the bulkhead down. It's already marked for depth.
5. We'll use this marked scrap to shuttle glue down 5 inches into the front and smear it around. Then in went the bulkhead and the BT-55 pushed it home

Tip: Put a stop on the BT-55 so you can't overshoot your depth. Don't ask I how know this. :bangpan::bangpan::bangpan:

Zetoyoc said:

I like this thread op:

-Z

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Please stay focused on the build and not all the yammering and grief!:wink:

gdjsky01 said:

Whoa... I am not gonna try and get the markings over the conduits!
snip
Ah... sport / standoff scale R us!

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But you could spend big bucks to get super sophisticated, computer cut vinyl decals to go over the conduits and still appear straight. Nothing is too good for our TLP kits. Reminds me of the story I heard that the head of a satellite TV company wanted a big logo of the company on the corrugated portion of the rocket so his mom would approve when she saw the rocket she was paying for finally go up. I guess it was quite a project and the cut vinyl looked bizarre when flat but it worked well on the corrugated surface.

gdjsky01 said:

Whoa... I am not gonna try and get the markings over the conduits!

Click to expand...

That's why I chose to punt and found an alternative scheme: all white with black fins and "US ARMY" off the conduits.

Great build Jeff ! As you know,I`m very fond of TLP kits and i don`t care what anybody says

I have most of their kits ,except for a very few.I just love to super detail those SOB`s !

Keep up the good work....I`m watching


Sincerely

Paul t

Just put some primer on the Kormoran, the fillets are drying on the Maverick, and last week I walked trough twenty isles of cheap Chinese home decor poo, dodging several moms and old ladies with their laden carts blocking the isle, just to get to the very back of the store for one pack of 40% off D12-5's so the Nike Ajax can fly on Sunday. Oh the life of a TLP flier! I have a fever and the only cure is more TLP. Twice the fun and twice the flights at half the price! TLP RULES!

1. First coat of primer fuzzies… yikes :y:
2. You can see how light the first coat is... it's almost translucent. That on the advice of Tim VanM at Apogee Components. - the vids there are awesome
3. Taking yet another page from HCMBanjo (Hans Chris...) I taped some thin tape face up to a piece of cardboard. Then stick down the conduit strips for priming. The back piece is already stuck down.
4. Viola. A first coat of primer on the conduits.

The Hawk on it's second coat of primer after knocking down some of the fuzzies...

The stuf stuck in the launch lugs is rolled up masking tape to keep most of the paint out. Nothing worse than getting to pad and finding out your lugs are so tight they bind... then you try and open them up, and they break off... etc... :eyeroll::wink:

I am sure many of you (Hi Captain!) can identify with that! Time for gloss coat! Red Devil Enamel in the cupboard is what I have... enamel, lacquer, who knows the bloody difference? Wheres the bloody FAQ!!!

I know lets test it on the primered conduits first! Brilliant!:bangpan::y:

No really! It worked!!! Pic 1

Awesome. Jackpot. Lets do the rocket! Pics 2 and 3

Few more days to outgas and DECALS!!:horse::horse::horse::horse:

gdjsky01 said:

Thanks Paul... first guide coat of primer when on last night... Where did all those fuzzies come from!!! :y::y: Not gonna go as super detailed as you though I am learning from your builds!... my usual standoff scale... stand WAY off!

Today: Sand the fuzzies, more primer. Living near the beach I am not gonna get less than 60% RH, so I might as well press on... I need to finish the e-bay for the Dagger 38 as well...

Daddy-is-a-bar ) sounds like first name...) I had a line on $8 a pack D12's. Alas by the time I had the dough, they were back up to $14... DOH!

Daddy-did-no-build-pictures????

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After filling tube spirals and sanding, the first coat of primer on your TLP kits will yield many fuzzies that are super fun to sand off. Fewer fuzzies on the second and so on...

D's 40% off at Hobby Lobby every other week! Or Hobby Linc if HL not close.

Daddy don't do build photos because if I would show my messy work area, my down and dirty techniques to get the best results fast and cheap with no pain - no pain, I would certainly be banned in short order cause it ain't what you read in all the Pro posts. It could also condemn the youth reading them to a lifetime of bad techniques and little or no chance of ever being a Pro.

Just keep up with the multiple light coats of primer and the sanding with progressively lighter sand paper because that is doing the right thing. Keep up double glue method with rivets because that is the strongest and again the right thing to do. By the time you get to TLP kit #10, flying each over five times with the associated fight dings, and without the dedication of the true Pros, and you accept a standoff scale standard, well, you will know what I mean.

P.S.

I flew my Lance for the 9th time today on a 20 year old E-15-7 and even with the long delay and gasps from the crowd as ejection was way late, not a speck of damage! (Well the very tip of the hat broke a bit but no one could see once I bent it back.) The Nike Ajax also flew perfect for the third time and not a speck of damage! (Well the inner tube above the motor mount is getting progressively fried but I can't see that and what you can't see won't hurt you.) Did get a little razz on the scale aspects of the TLP Nike Ajax but the haters are really having to search for something negative to say after so many successful flights, and I now have more than enough ammo to fire back as a TLP lover.

gdjsky01 said:

I am sure many of you (Hi Captain!) can identify with that! Time for gloss coat! Red Devil Enamel in the cupboard is what I have... enamel, lacquer, who knows the bloody difference? Wheres the bloody FAQ!!!

I know lets test it on the primered conduits first! Brilliant!:bangpan::y:

No really! It worked!!! Pic 1

Awesome. Jackpot. Lets do the rocket! Pics 2 and 3

Few more days to outgas and DECALS!!:horse::horse::horse::horse:

Click to expand...

Looking great, Jeff!

And just look at all those TLP kits hanging in the background of the photo like sausages. UMMM, UMMM GOOD!

Obscure reference in the title there....


Tonight the ole' sniffer detected little to no paint on the ole Hawk. So I broke out the Excelsior decals... Somewhere along the way I must scratched them as I am sure they were perfect from Sandman... but I can fix up that US Army decal after application with a sharpie. There are other decals on the sheet that despite my looking online, I don't see, like the rivets and firing temps, but I'll use them where it makes sense, if it makes sense....

As you can see, I've pulled the tape where the white conduits will attach. But after I get the decals down.

Drats I did not get the cool JonRocket sticker in the photo on the pegboard. Got in an order... so now I can say, oooo I have a "Wedgie"... Eh... he prolly wouldn't have paid me for the plug anyway!

Gonna look very nice once those decnals are in place (I know it`s decals ,I got it from trailer park boys)

It makes sense to me ,that those rivets and demarcation lines might look good around the base of the nosecone ,just down a piece.

But hey ,use a little "carte blanche"......I do all the time


Paul T

If only finishing rockets was my forte...

Anyway here I am - you can plot my days off by post volume...

Anyway on went some decals. Sandman makes great decals! But there is a gotcha! They are thin! Now this is good news/bad news. Bad news is they are delicate and fold/tear/spindle and mutilate VERY easily. The good news is the edges virtually disappear when applied - which is what you want. It looks for all the world like they were painted on... But man-o-man you must be gentle! Lessons I guess I'll learn next TLP build with Sandmans decals. If you like TLP and you have a kit he has decals for, I can recommend them - with the above advice!

The decal layout on the instructions shows No Step/No Lift on the vanes and fins... stupid me... there are only enough for vanes OR fins... I could have printed more... but ... well... you know...

With decals in place (and in some cases illogically placed - which I notice AFTER I did it)... :eyeroll::eyeroll::eyeroll:


What I tried to do was create a V notch underneath the conduit where the body tube met the tailcone with only limited success. I thought I'd crack the balsa and then dab white paint to cover up the crack. It worked. But there was little advantage to it.

Then run glue and set it in place. Weight down to dry. Repeat for the other side.

Like clothes make the man ,the same can be said about decals ,now that missile looks like a missile.....very nice work. I like where you put the rivet band ,seems like a logical location .

I went through my vast stock of TLP kits and see I have the 2.6" version.

I forecast a HAWK build in the near future

Cheers


Paul T

PS- I`m a lousy dresser ,but still a nice man