A question about Cesaroni...

[Bob in Phoenix]

To: Robert DeHate at Animal Motor Works
Tim Van Milligan at Apogee Rockets
Tim Lehr at Wildman Rockets
Christopher Short at Chris' Rocket Supplies
Gentlemen: Have any of you received engines from Cesaroni since 01Jan24? In the last six months?
or, when did you last receive engines from Cesaroni?
The Pro38/Cesaroni website is not there anymore. I fear we may all soon be making wind chimes out of our Cesaroni cases.
Aerotech and Loki may soon have many new customers.

Bob in Phoenix

 

[kuririn]

This one?
http://pro38.com/

 

[Titan II]

The Pro38/Cesaroni website is not there anymore.

It works for me.

 

[Art Upton]

Yesterday I ran into that issue that the website took me to a domain seller. Then mins later it worked again.
I assumed I just did a typo.

 

[cbrarick]

I'm not certain that's a good question for any retailer.
Would you ask that of your grocery store? Perhaps Walmart?

 

[John Kemker]

I'm not certain that's a good question for any retailer.
Would you ask that of your grocery store? Perhaps Walmart?

I've asked my grocery store what's going on with Dr. Pepper Zero multiple times. The local Pepsi distributor isn't up to snuff.

 

[jsdemar]

Yesterday I ran into that issue that the website took me to a domain seller. Then mins later it worked again.
I assumed I just did a typo.

The pro38.com website isn't using https secure browsing. That will hiccup a lot of browsers. They were told about this long ago.

 

[jsdemar]

I'm not certain that's a good question for any retailer.
Would you ask that of your grocery store? Perhaps Walmart?

There's a different structure here than with mass retailing. There's only one level between us and the rocket motor manufacturers. So, it's a fair question to the vendors. The situation has been discussed here if one wishes to dig back through the posts.

 

[Art Upton]

The pro38.com website isn't using https secure browsing. That will hiccup a lot of browsers. They were told about this long ago.

Yea this is what you get if you use https and what I saw yesterday

 

[SolarYellow]

There's a different structure here than with mass retailing. There's only one level between us and the rocket motor manufacturers. So, it's a fair question to the vendors. The situation has been discussed here if one wishes to dig back through the posts.

The latest input I remember in the CTI thread is to not expect any new hobby shipments of anything until the fall of this year.

 

[cbrarick]

I think it's a fair question on the cti open thread to ask cti if they are shipping.
I don't think it a proper question to ask retailers (perhaps I'm just old fashioned) in a open forum.
it just doesn't seem to be polite to me, demanding this information open forum manner
I do think whatever the individual retailers want to disclose on their own is OK (and we've seen that)
It;s also ok for them to not answer it. Perhaps they would believe that it would spoil the relationship they have with the supplier. We don't know

to me, placing the retailers "on the spot" about what a supplier is doing just seems rude.

your mileage may (and probably does) vary

 

[jsdemar]

I think it's a fair question on the cti open thread to ask cti if they are shipping.
I don't think it a proper question to ask retailers (perhaps I'm just old fashioned) in a open forum.
it just doesn't seem to be polite to me, demanding this information open forum manner
I do think whatever the individual retailers want to disclose on their own is OK (and we've seen that)
It;s also ok for them to not answer it. Perhaps they would believe that it would spoil the relationship they have with the supplier. We don't know

to me, placing the retailers "on the spot" about what a supplier is doing just seems rude.

your mileage may (and probably does) vary

I see your point, and I agree that the dealers can ignore the question and just not answer. But this is a unique situation in our relatively small market.

We are a minor portion of CTI's business and the management there decided at least 18 months ago to put hobby rocketry on their lowest priority. There are multiple reasons for this and it's understandable from a business point of view (I won't go into it again).

For CTI dealers, it's been an ordeal with mixed messages, long lead times, and missed deliveries. For end users, it's a mess of confusion, rumors, and lost investment in hardware. And for the one CTI employee left to support us here, it's impossible with everything else he has to do, especially when he has no authority to change the decisions made by management.

IMO, the best we can expect from CTI is: a once-a-year production of limited propellants, available through the few dealers who want to continue selling CTI under the situation. Warranty is limited to dealers getting replacements whenever CTI makes the product again and whenever a dealer has a shipment coming (that's the CTI policy).

Aerotech wins. Loki has an opportunity to fill the void with his high-quality unique products.

 

[SolarYellow]

Well, my planned future solution is an L2 cert.

 

[NateB]

Well, my planned future solution is an L2 cert.

Me too, and some Loki products will help.

 

[John Kemker]

Me too, and some Loki products will help.

99% snap-ring motors, here. Either Loki, old AMW, Kosdon, or homebrew. The only threaded closure cases I own are two 29mm Aerotech H motors and an Aerotech 24/40 casing. I hope to eventually get 29mm Kosdon hardware and start making my own propellant for those few 29mm HPR rockets I have. The 24/40 is for LPR/MPR rockets that need a D or better.

I respect Cesaroni and certified L1 (the second time) on one of their motors. Just prefer snap-ring style.

 

[BEC]

Bob Grossfeld (Oregon Astronomy and Rocketry) just posted on the RocketsNW mailing list earlier today that he's just received a CTI shipment and is expecting another. For whatever its worth....

 

[jsdemar]

Bob Grossfield (Oregon Astronomy and Rocketry) just posted on the RocketsNW mailing list earlier today that he's just received a CTI shipment and is expecting another. For whatever it’s worth....

Are you sure it came from CTI?

 

[BEC]

Are you sure it came from CTI?

Are you questioning that Bob doesn't know what he received, or what? His post on the list was in response to one of our local tARC mentors looking for a particular CTI load. This is what he actually posted:

Which CTI motors are you looking for?
Just got a shipment last week, and more coming,
There are a few other dealers that have some stock too.

Bob is a well known vendor in this area.

 

[rharshberger]

Are you questioning that Bob doesn't know what he received, or what? His post on the list was in response to one of our local tARC mentors looking for a particular CTI load. This is what he actually posted:


Bob is a well known vendor in this area.

Very well known....great guy all the way around.

 

[jsdemar]

Are you questioning that Bob doesn't know what he received, or what?

Sorry, I wasn’t implying they weren’t CTI products. They came from a vendor with a large inventory of CTI motors.

 

[cbrarick]

99% snap-ring motors, here. Either Loki, old AMW, Kosdon, or homebrew. The only threaded closure cases I own are two 29mm Aerotech H motors and an Aerotech 24/40 casing. I hope to eventually get 29mm Kosdon hardware and start making my own propellant for those few 29mm HPR rockets I have. The 24/40 is for LPR/MPR rockets that need a D or better.

I respect Cesaroni and certified L1 (the second time) on one of their motors. Just prefer snap-ring style.

why would you go Kosdon or 29 mm?

Kosdon is OOP and closures are not interchangeable with AMW standard closures, so you can beg some (like I did) or have them machined.
Kosdon liner specs are not AMW standard so you'd have to get a mill to make you a run. You will have liners for life and not know what to do with the excess.
IMHO stick with AMW standard (so then Loki, Fischer or others will work)

29's are tiny, as such are a PIA to pack, or even pour if you use a mandrel. I don't encourage drilling cores due to the production of powder, which is literally flash powder. (Full disclosure I own Tru-Core)
29's have little thrust and most of us don't own a rocket that will fly on a G or baby H with electronics in it. Yes I know people who do, but IMHO the sweet spot for EX is 38 and up. I think that one of most versatile cases is the 54-4 which is easy to pack and will run most propellants without a wide range of mandrels or nozzles. Plus it's a K so it's got some grunt. I cast all of my scrap into 54 5/8.

 

[cwbullet]

99% snap-ring motors, here. Either Loki, old AMW, Kosdon, or homebrew. The only threaded closure cases I own are two 29mm Aerotech H motors and an Aerotech 24/40 casing. I hope to eventually get 29mm Kosdon hardware and start making my own propellant for those few 29mm HPR rockets I have. The 24/40 is for LPR/MPR rockets that need a D or better.

I respect Cesaroni and certified L1 (the second time) on one of their motors. Just prefer snap-ring style.

I miss Kosdon, Gorrilla and AMW. A very energetic person could crowd fund a return.

 

[Art Upton]

I miss Kosdon, Gorrilla and AMW. A very energetic person could crowd fund a return.

Then you should like Loki motors. I have had the 38, then 54s then the 75 M motor. As I can't travel to far away fields I sold the 54s and 75 hardware and what loads I still had. I still have the 38s but even those I don't see me flying anytime soon.

I still have 2 6XL CTI loads, including the dual thrust K and Cases/closure. Hopefully I will sell those locally this flying season. These were made before the problems.

 

[John Kemker]

why would you go Kosdon or 29 mm?

Kosdon is OOP and closures are not interchangeable with AMW standard closures, so you can beg some (like I did) or have them machined.
Kosdon liner specs are not AMW standard so you'd have to get a mill to make you a run. You will have liners for life and not know what to do with the excess.
IMHO stick with AMW standard (so then Loki, Fischer or others will work)

29's are tiny, as such are a PIA to pack, or even pour if you use a mandrel. I don't encourage drilling cores due to the production of powder, which is literally flash powder. (Full disclosure I own Tru-Core)
29's have little thrust and most of us don't own a rocket that will fly on a G or baby H with electronics in it. Yes I know people who do, but IMHO the sweet spot for EX is 38 and up. I think that one of most versatile cases is the 54-4 which is easy to pack and will run most propellants without a wide range of mandrels or nozzles. Plus it's a K so it's got some grunt. I cast all of my scrap into 54 5/8.

Kosdon only for the 29mm and 1" motors. There's still some KBA reloads out there for the 29mm from some vendors. AMW "standard" closures? I certified Level 3 on a Kosdon East (aka AMW) 75mm M1130. AMW *was* Kosdon back in the day.

"Little thrust?" Hmm...you don't seem to be seeing the same motors I do. Frank had a 1" E40. That seems to be a bit more average thrust than anything that Estes or Aerotech currently offers. I don't fly on huge fields out West. I'm on the East coast and our fields are smaller, so smaller rockets with smaller motors tends to be the average.

I'm aware of the problems with casting into 29mm and 1" propellant molds. It's not as difficult as you make it out to be. Would you tell @Rocketjunkie to stop making his 18mm and 24mm motors? I don't think so. I respect your talent in making the Tru-Core products and I own a set. Will probably own more in the future. However, the beauty of life is its diversity. You do you. I'll do me.

Bless your heart.

 

[WILDMANRS]

Yes I have received orders since January.
Beware who you take advice from some people like to think they know things they really don’t.

 

[jsdemar]

Yes I have received orders since January.
Beware who you take advice from some people like to think they know things they really don’t.

Please be more specific, Tim.

 

[cwbullet]

Yes I have received orders since January.
Beware who you take advice from some people like to think they know things they really don’t.

Thanks Tim.